Does the Battier/Gay trade still bother/frustrate/infuriate you to this day?

I second that. I was merely pointing out that the Rockets may have overvalued Shane Battier, but then again...history says the Rockets tend to overvalue ALOT of players.

Examples:

(3 1st round picks for Griffin)
(Pretty much the whole team for Francis)
(The contracts of Cato, Maloney, Taylor, Norris, Francis...but enough of the depressing memories because Carrol Dawson's time has passed.)

 

I hate to point this out, but even Luther Head can score 20-25 with no Tracy.

 

I said when they struggle. I guess Luther can get those like he has done in the playoffs Please get a clue.

 

Could just be that Rocket's brass was worried about jersey sales....

Nowadays, its all about the money.

 

Get a clue? Are you serious?

You know the saying the grass is always greener on the other side. You seriously have that complex. You want Dumars cause he's the best, you want Rudy Gay because obviously he's the second coming... let me explain something to you...

There is no conspiracy to make this team worse.

Other teams have the same struggles as the Rockets do.

The rest of the team did pick it up this year when certain players were struggling, how do you think we won 22 games in a row?

Yall need to stop taking everything said to heart and think with your mind not your bad attitude.


And with that I am outta this thread.. I am sick of rehashing the same stuff over and over again.

 

The same Luther Head couldn't hit a single 3 pointer even with Tracy against Utah. I'm certain he wouldn't been able to do anything better if he were there by himself. There is no doubt that he is regressing instead of improving. Battier had one solid scoring game and could only average 7.6 points a game after that.
He didn't sustain the injury to his ankle until the 3rd game either. Defense alone won't get it done. Rudy Gay is a 6'7'' SF not a 6'2" one dimensional SG like Head.
He also has been in the league for only 2 years and still has upside for growth.
By the way in response to your other post,I have never implied that there is a conspiracy to weaken the team. We are a better defensive ball club now but also need more offense as well. We can't expect Yao and Tracy to be healthy.

 

Total and absolute BS. They were NOWHERE near the same team. For starters Gasol was injured amd played fewer than 1,800 minutes. He played nearly 3,000 in his first two seasons and 2,400+ the season before Gay got there. And that's the tip of the ice berg. But then again...you've always been one to selectively choose which stats favor YOUR position.

 

As opposed to you?

Gasol missed 22 games in Gay's first season.

On his return, the lineup was essentially the same (-Battier, + Gay)

He averaged 36mpg over those 'last' 60 games (in which he played every one).
The Grizzlies won 17 from 60.

points against for the Grizz went from a league best 88.1 (with Battier) to 106 (without).

I'm not going to say Gay will never learn to defend - maybe next season he'll be fantastic for the Grizzlies on both ends!

I think the trade was a double edged sword: if we had kept Gay, we're stuck with Swift, and we're howling about needing a big, defensive 2/3 who can stop anybody. (And Gay doesn't average 20ppg playing 3rd fiddle - "we should have made the trade" people will scream)
We made the trade, unloaded Clueless Swift, brought back a supreme defender who can shoot the trey at 39%. But now we're howling about needing an offensive 2/3 to come off the bench (let's not mention the artist formerly known as Bonzi Wells in this conversation please) "we shouldn't have made the trade" people are screaming...

The thing about a "good trade for both clubs" is that nobody can clearly tell who ripped off who. Since we're so divided in our opinions on this trade, it leads me to the conclusion that it was pretty well a wash. We got defense, they got future talent.

And the beautiful thing about the NBA is that you get to make more moves - yes, we traded for Battier - but since then we've drafted and signed plenty of other players!

IMO, at THIS stage, and with THIS team, I'm glad we made the trade, because it's easier to find a guy to come off the bench as a 2/3 and score some points for the MLE than it is to find a guy who can start, hit 39% from downtown, guard their best offensive player every night and lead the team defensively.

Those guys are pretty rare.

 

It's all right to have opposite viewpoints.I don't think anything more needs to be said about this matter.

 

This is exactly why the Rockets are at home now!! Because they had a potential 20/5/5 Guy on the draft board, in Rudy Gay, an ellected to pass him up or trade him to a divisional opponent! Thabo is good but he is not Rudy Gay at this point Battier is not Rudy Gay!!!! This is the trade that set us back! What is our main need at this point? A long athletic guy that can play defense and get his own shot. Battier plays excellent defense BUT he can not get his own shot. Bad Trade

 

Thanks.

The fact that there are good arguments on both sides means that it is not "hands down" one way or another, like some extremists here try to portray.

 

Go back and do your research dude!!!! This was Morey's decision, not JVG. The notation was that JVG would not play rookies. He later came back and said that was not true, he said he would most likely play anyone. Remember Luther Head played alot his rookie season under JVG. This was Morey's move and his alone!! In my eyes Morey is under 50% right now;

Bust Good Moves
Mike James (did not fit) Scola (Good Trade)
Battier Trade ( can not get own shot) Landry (Good value pick)
Steve Francis (finished)
Aaron Brooks (too short, will never be a starter)

 

Hey bro, learn context we were talking about JVG playing his veterans to beat Denver a couple of years ago and it cost them Brandon Roy.

SHEESH !

DD

 

No, our main need is a PG and health....we can win it all with Battier at the SF spot.

We have more pressing needs.....Rudy would be an upgrade on offense and a downgrade on defense....so it is a wash.

DD

 

From the historic perspective:

At the time we make the trade, we traded away future for now. End result: we didn't get both. So, it was a bad decision back then.

From the team game perspective:

As for making teams better, if Gay is replaced by Battier, anyone can prove that Memphis can win more than 22 games?

I think not, because Battier can't create, all he does is finishing the 3s standing around. With creators around Battier is no better than Gay on offense. Without a creator, Battier is 5 times worse than Gay on offense. So, replacing Gay with Battier would make Memphis win like 10 games.

If Gay is on the Rockets, he would be twice better on offensive impact because great offensive players playing together maximizes their impact. With Yao and T-Mac diverting defensive attention, Gay will rip teams apart.

From the playoffs perspective:

With Battier playing hard D, our defense didn't stop teams from scoring in the playoffs. With Battier standing around on O, our offense was often suffocated. Two offensively challenged playoffs, two first round exits.

From the team development perspective:
With Battier getting old and past his prime, his trade value keeps sinking. With Gay rising, his trade value is higher than Battier ever was.

From market perspective:

When Francis was in his prime, he played no lick of defense and he would never be traded for Battier as high octane scorers are harder to come by than defensive role players.

Conclusion: Gay > Battier

 

What bothered me most is obvious, which one is a better trade bait: battier or rudy gay. With Gay, we could easily land mike miller/artest....

 

Incorrect. Talent is superceded in the NBA by having contracts match. In this respect, Battier at 5M could be traded for Artest but we'd need another expiring contract + Gay to get Artest. And expiring contracts don't just fall out of trees.