1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Does the Battier/Gay trade still bother/frustrate/infuriate you to this day?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by W22_STREAK, Jun 4, 2008.

?

Does it still bother you?

  1. Deeply

    134 vote(s)
    17.8%
  2. Slightly

    175 vote(s)
    23.3%
  3. I didn't mind the trade

    170 vote(s)
    22.6%
  4. I'm glad the deal was made

    272 vote(s)
    36.2%
  1. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,657
    Likes Received:
    4,036
    I love what Battier brings to the table but that was, and still is a bad trade. A defensive stopper at the wing position is overrated in this league. Who is the defensive stopper for the Lakers? Posey is arguably Boston's best defensive stopper, and he chose to go to there because of their Big 3. The Celtics other defensive wing was acquired on the cheap (Allen). The Lakers wing stopper was also acquired on the cheap (Ariza). You don't give up the #8 pick in the draft for defensive stoppers...you just don't...not when they can't bring more offense to the table. Not to mention our "team defense" was just fine before we traded for Battier.

    Gay in his 2nd season is a better player than Shane. You can at least try to build a team around him, as the Grizz are doing. Yeah, their record sucked last year but is Battier capable of being a #1 option and carrying a team any further?

    I'm happy to have Shane on the team and he played his heart out for us this postseason, but we overpayed for him. You only trade for players like him when they are the missing piece and he clearly wasn't at that time. And yes, I know the Rockets were going to take the Theo dude but that just goes to further show their incompetence when it came to that draft.
     
  2. Verbatim

    Verbatim Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2001
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    24
    Well that really rewarded them didn't it. LOL.

    #2 picks even becomes a bust, same for JW (#2 after Yao). That #8 is looking good right now but at the time, it's a gamble the Rockets did not want to take. They did NOT consider Ruday Gay to be their pick, decided to go with the deal with Memphis and the rest is history. The deal did throw out Swift's useless contract (less anyone think it was worth anything). Really.
     
  3. Verbatim

    Verbatim Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2001
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    24
    Again WTF on the "greatness" of a #8 pick. Give it a break will you. BTW, Battier was a little better than OK on defense. Now you are showing your true colors. You just can't stand the guy and thinks Rudy Guy is the next coming of.. Wait for it. (for the Rockets, it was the fear of the next coming of Eddie Griffin...) I don't really care at this point. The game is played on both sides of the court. I would be nice if Battier gets more 3pt shots because he's the best 3pt shooter on the team (Novak needs to play more to earn that). And many here agreed he was cheats out of DOY. Now isn't that worth just a little something?

    I actually see the fear of EG a very real reason for not going Rudy Gay. Rockets got burned, bad and didn't want to take the chance, 7 other teams didn't either. Now is Gay better than Roy? Don't think so. Was the Rockets shooting for Roy, yes. That shows they evaluated talent and decided to go less risk when Roy was gone. It's really simple and it's 2 years ago. Give it a break.
     
  4. Verbatim

    Verbatim Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2001
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    24
    One more thing. JVC shot the team in the foot with that one meaningless win that cost the team the #6 spot. Roy was picked #6. If there is anyone to blame for not maximizing the lottery for the Rockets, it's JVC for playing to win when getting a lottery pick was the sure thing. That now sucked.
     
  5. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Oh yeah totally right...Like last year teams like the Celtics were tanking completely...even resting their fringe starters to let some really bad scrubs play just to maximise chance of top pick...they got 5th pick...if you don't know how to win you would at least know how to lose a game right?!! But no...our scrubs had to showcase their winning skills so they'd look slightly better before they get waived right afterwards...

    so 2 missed golden opportunities...

    1-With no playoff hope still trying to win meaningless games which resulted in impacting extremely greatly on the prospect we were aiming for.
    2-Missing out on Roy...we had a chance to have a almost equally as good prospect falling to our laps at no.8 in the draft, but we just had to give it up...for someone who we're talking about trading away to gain another scorer...

    Imagine this:

    Alston
    Roy
    McGrady
    Scola
    Yao
     
  6. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,815
    Likes Received:
    790
    I've actually been through with this and I respect what u say Verbatim, but I'm puzzled by some of ur logic. Why would a organization be scared of a player because they failed on a totally different player type of player. Gay, Griffin and Swift are 3 different players who play different positions. if that the case why would the rox draft yao when the last guy over 7'2 was injury prone? I've been consistent that Battier is a ok player, but will never be worth the #8 pick and a player. I mean u could compile a all star squad of players taken 8,9. Battier was overvalued and the team is tryingh to correct it.

    Like I said, they didn't have to pick Gay. It couldn't been Brewer or traded for Childress. The Wizards got jamison for their top 10 pick.Boston got Ray Allen. Say what u will, but Battier hasn't played well in any playoffs. Posey and guys like that aren't traded for high lotto picks.
     
  7. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,783
    Likes Received:
    3,266
    The trade still bothers me because they should have also gotten the, #22 pick that the Griz used on Lowry in that trade.

    And then as much as I thought Novak would be decent, I just had a feeling Milsap would be good and we passed him up twice.
     
  8. kjayp

    kjayp Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,981
    Likes Received:
    7,826
    Soooooooooo sick of all this Rudy Gay nonsense! We were looking at a window of opportunity (which is rapidly closing) to which Battier was a PROVEN COMMODITY who could provide instant impact vs POTENTIAL DOWN THE ROAD... The world needs ditchdiggers, too... and championship teams need DEFENSE and ROLE PLAYERS! It's not 'draft the best player' or even 'get the best player' its get the guy whos gonna most HELP YOUR TEAM! For all the b****in i hear on this site about chemistry.... Battier is the man! ANYONE WHO THINKS WE WOULDA WON 22 IN A ROW WITH GAY INSTEAD OF BATTIER - NEEDS TO GET A CLUE.
     
  9. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Well it was a proven fully developed(i.e. no more potential left in the tank) vs, a star rookie who has massive potential AS WELL AS ability to contribute IMMEDIATELY.

    The 22 win streak was magnificent(see my moniker)...

    however, I'd rather get a lottery pick rather than go in to the 1st round knowing for sure that without our best player we will be knocked out of the first round. ie I mean we could have lost more games but it means we're a lot more ready now. Rudy will have developed into the 20ppg scoring machine that he is right now and we'd have a lottery pick to boot... hence we'd have a better record next season...hence more chance of winning a championship.

    We haven't exactly gone into any uncharted territories with Shane...but with Rudy...who knows...we couldn't be much worse and we'd be a lot better next year
     
  10. AXG

    AXG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    939
    I hated the trade when it was announced. I was at the draft party and I walked out furious, not even waiting for the 2nd round pick to be called. Now, it's been two years and even though I still think of what could've been, I am no longer angry about it.
     
  11. radapharoah

    radapharoah Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    I like the handle that Appeared after the trade. GAY4WHO? :D
     
  12. jdmb82

    jdmb82 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    These polls frustrate me more than any trade or bloated contract (mo taylor, brent price, etc.) ever will.
     
  13. carayip

    carayip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    20
    It's not that trading the pick for a proven veteran was bad. It's that the Rockets got so little in return that was really hurting. A lottory pick that high should at least net you an All-Star, not a role player like a Battier (abeit a good one). Just go check Boston trade for Ray Allen or Kevin Garnett. Or the Lakers trade for Pau Gasol.

    Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, Gilbert Arenas, Corey Maggette, Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton. Those are the kind you should shoot for. And those kind of talent would suddenly look or have looked way more gettable now with a No 8 pick or a lottory-picked young player than Shane Battier as our asset. Not to mention the chance of that No 8 pick turning out to be as good as Rudy Gay, we might not even want to trade him for a more proven player if the whole thing was undone right now.
     
  14. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Messages:
    28,817
    Likes Received:
    5,749
    I think it is very safe to say that Battier was tremendously overvalued by Rockets management, especially by Jeff Van Gumby.
     
  15. gamer4Life

    gamer4Life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gay would have been able to replace McGrady once McGrady gets injured/old.
     
  16. bullardfan

    bullardfan なんでやねん

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    101
    not the trade of gay for battier so much as the price we paid for battier that infuriates me. we couldve gotten a little more albeit they were taking swift off of our hands.
     
  17. DOHCtah

    DOHCtah Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow back from the dead...

    I think many people fail to realize that if we kept Gay, there is a chance he would never have turned into the player he is today. With the Rox, he would have probably ridden the bench or seen very limited minutes and stagnated his growth. In Memphis, he instantly became the star and the go-to guy with the green light on any shot he wanted to. Plus there wasn't much talent on that Memphis team, so he was forced to score and got ALOT of touches. For instance, look at Rafer and Mike James during their stints with at-the-time talentless Toronto. Look at the rockstar numbers they put up... and look at them now..

    Think Kwame if he wasn't in Washington, or Darko if he didn't get stuck in Detroit. Could have been VERY VERY different for them if they went somewhere and developed differently. For all we know.. Rudy on the Rox might have turned into a Gerald Green..
     
  18. bushbush1988

    bushbush1988 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    i think if we kept him, he'd be moded into some sort of super defensive stopper by van gundy...
     
  19. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Lets face it: The 2006 Draft was a terrible draft for the Rockets.

    I cannot understand this "win-now" logic that some of you are using to put forward to support the argument the Gay-Battier trade was a good one.

    NOW GUESS WHAT?! BATTIER WILL BE PLAYING INJURED ON AND OFF FOR THE WHOLE SEASON!!!

    Now thats "win-now" right there for you huh??? Gay meanwhile is a borderline all-star playing with great athleticsm which is exactly what our team lacks.

    If you're gonna trade a potential allstar for someone to be a roleplayer for your team why not let Rudy just become that RolePlayer? Yeah like as if we're gonna win a championship when Yao's 26 and T-Mac is 27. If Rudy was in our team right now his development would've peaked with Yao and T-Mac's prime! Now we won't be able to get Rudy back even if we offered T-Mac for him.

    And we had Rudy right in our hands!!! Morey isn't that good as advertised. As if getting a few role players on the cheap can compensate for giving away an all-star.

    Examples of a winning team plagued by major injuries getting lottery picks:

    Andrew Bynum
    Tim Duncan
    Michael Beasley

    Now which of those teams traded those picks away so they can so called "win-now" ??? Bynum coming out of high-school was tonnes more raw than Rudy was and Kupchak didnt even give him up for an all-star in Kidd!
     
  20. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    wow the thread is resurrected...

    the debate is reignited...

    Lets face it: The 2006 Draft was a terrible draft for the Rockets.

    I cannot understand this "win-now" logic that some of you are using to put forward to support the argument the Gay-Battier trade was a good one.

    NOW GUESS WHAT?! BATTIER WILL BE PLAYING INJURED ON AND OFF FOR THE WHOLE SEASON!!!

    Now thats "win-now" right there for you huh??? Gay meanwhile is a borderline all-star playing with great athleticsm which is exactly what our team lacks.

    If you're gonna trade a potential allstar for someone to be a roleplayer for your team why not let Rudy just become that RolePlayer? Yeah like as if we're gonna win a championship when Yao's 26 and T-Mac is 27. If Rudy was in our team right now his development would've peaked with Yao and T-Mac's prime! Now we won't be able to get Rudy back even if we offered T-Mac for him.

    And we had Rudy right in our hands!!! Morey isn't that good as advertised. As if getting a few role players on the cheap can compensate for giving away an all-star.

    Examples of a winning team plagued by major injuries getting lottery picks:

    Andrew Bynum
    Tim Duncan
    Michael Beasley

    Now which of those teams traded those picks away so they can so called "win-now" ??? Bynum coming out of high-school was tonnes more raw than Rudy was and Kupchak didnt even give him up for an all-star in Kidd!Lets face it: The 2006 Draft was a terrible draft for the Rockets.

    I cannot understand this "win-now" logic that some of you are using to put forward to support the argument the Gay-Battier trade was a good one.

    NOW GUESS WHAT?! BATTIER WILL BE PLAYING INJURED ON AND OFF FOR THE WHOLE SEASON!!!

    Now thats "win-now" right there for you huh??? Gay meanwhile is a borderline all-star playing with great athleticsm which is exactly what our team lacks.

    If you're gonna trade a potential allstar for someone to be a roleplayer for your team why not let Rudy just become that RolePlayer? Yeah like as if we're gonna win a championship when Yao's 26 and T-Mac is 27. If Rudy was in our team right now his development would've peaked with Yao and T-Mac's prime! Now we won't be able to get Rudy back even if we offered T-Mac for him.

    And we had Rudy right in our hands!!! Morey isn't that good as advertised. As if getting a few role players on the cheap can compensate for giving away an all-star.

    Examples of a winning team plagued by major injuries getting lottery picks:

    Andrew Bynum
    Tim Duncan
    Michael Beasley

    Now which of those teams traded those picks away so they can so called "win-now" ??? Bynum coming out of high-school was tonnes more raw than Rudy was and Kupchak didnt even give him up for an all-star in Kidd when facing pressure from the franchise player Kobe!!!

    Sure, there is a chance Rudy won't have developed as fast under us, but if you only want a freckin' role player out of Rudy, you might as well let Rudy become that role player while he develops!

    Lakers fleece Memphis, and Memphis fleeces us...how dumb can you get to get fleeced by the Grizzlies...

    It would've been great to have an borderline allstar playing under a rookie contract all the way until the summer of 2010. Then we probably would've already extended Rudy to a max contract attracting the attention of all-star FA's who want to win-now.
     

Share This Page