I think he'll fit. Somehow Phil Jackson and Kobe will make it work. But if Ron doesn't fit.... Brian Cook+Brent for Ron. Get it done, Morey.
Couldn't agree more. It's amazing how perceptions of man-to-man defense work -- since there's little quantifiable data in routine box score numbers, it seems like most fans go entirely by reputation. Yes, most fans here watch the games, but it seems as if they subconsciously look for any plays that support the pre-established bias, and then blow them out of proportion. The reality, like you said, is that Ron's defense wasn't even average by the end of last season. It was bad. Any player with speed lit him up. Watching him against Kobe was sheer hilarity, compared with Battier. The idea the casual NBA fan seems to have that Artest is a "defensive upgrade" or even provides a defensive presence to the Lakers is one of the funniest and most bizarre things I've heard in a long, long time. And that's not even discussing the offensive end, where Artest's overdribbling and propensity to shoot too much are pretty much the opposite you want in the triangle with Kobe, Gasol and Odom. Ariza fit perfectly. This will get the Lakers good PR, I guess, but this move makes no sense for them on the floor.
Artest is going to F up their chemistry. Ariza thrived on the team with his athleticism, cutting and slashing to the basket. Artest is no longer the defender he once was. Their best chance is if Artest becomes more of a spot up shooter on offense. Limit his shots and he'll be ok.
And his offense too. His days of "the best two-way player" are long gone (if there were any to begin with). And I don't know about making the team "tough." Did he make the Kings tough? Did he make the Rockets tough? I think people underrated the Rockets' toughness without Artest. How else did they win 22 without Yao half of the time? There is a reason why Artest can only get MLE money at this point of career.
Ron went to hero mode coz Rox had no one else to take over. He knows exactly who he can and should defer to in Lakers.
Yeah, that was my one of my biggest pet peeves last year when the usual idiot brigade in the GARM polished Ron's sack for somehow making the Rockets tougher I guess in an attempt to belittle McGrady. It was pathetic and hilarious at the same time considering the adversity this team had fought through in winning 22 games the very year before. Like The Cat said, I guess people just reaffirm their pre-existing notions. I do think he will add some toughness to a Laker team that sometimes coasts, though I mainly said that in my previous post so as to give him credit for something and not appear like sour grapes - I honestly couldn't think of any other positive attribute he could bring to that team other than that. And like I said, we're talking about a team that just won the championship. I think they are quite tough enough, if I must say. But whatever. Ron's a great guy it seems so I wish him well. I guess Phil should be able to control him, but aside from there NOT being problems, I don't see what positives he can bring to that team. Anyone that watched him last year saw that he isn't really that good anymore. Atleast not better than how Ariza played in that same role.
Lakers don't count on Artest to defend fast wing. Kobe can do it. As long as Artest can contain the likes of Melo, PP, LBJ, Carter better than Ariza, that'd be more than enough. Kobe can have Roy and the other team cannot switch a 3 on him defensively otherwise Artest can back the opposition 2 down. Who does Kobe fear when play both sides one on one?
Artest is being brought in solely as a body to try to slow down or get physical with King James in the event of a Cavs/Lakers final. Good pick up.
As cabbage said, the Melo/LeBron wings are few and far between. It's a speed/dribble-drive league, for the most part. And Kobe is not a good man defender. He has the talent to do it, but he prefers to play help defense and roam. It's not in his mentality to play straight up, man to man defense the way a Battier does for 40 minutes a night -- not to mention the toll that would take on his energy, and thus, his offense. Also, were you watching the Rockets by the playoffs? I hardly ever saw Artest back anyone down. At this point in his career, Artest is a glorified three-point bomber, and an inconsistent one at that.
Artest will be an asset for the Lakers. The only problem is can He adjust to the system. With the Rockets, it was easy since He did play for Adelman but with the Lakers, where Kobe demands the ball most of the time, Will Ron accept that. Tmac was the same and Ron was not to pleased.
Some of you guys drank too much coffee this morning. We all know Ron's man-on-man defense is overrated and that he's severely declining in that regard. Has that fact rendered him useless, though? Considering how well he played Roy (all things considered) and how he's showed he's maybe one of the 2-3 players in this league capable of slowing/bothering LeBron, I think that speaks for itself. Another match up where this move will pay off is against Melo. Melo is used to overpowering his opponent when he posts up and hits the glass -- he won't have that advantage against a physical monster like Artest. Plus, let's not forget that Kobe is an All-Defensive Team caliber defender in his own right. The poster that said he's not a good one-on-one defender that likes to roam clearly just watched him play against the Rockets (against Battier) and nobody else. On nights where Artest is outmatched and/or he's gambling too much, it's possible for Kobe, Vujacic or whichever young 2/3 the Lakers will sign to help him out. We're not talking about Raja Bell on those SSOL Suns teams where he's basically the ONLY defensive player in some type of boom-or-bust scenario. [Mind you, I say all this as a guy that's liked Ariza for a LONG time....] Is Ariza even a better defender than a declining Artest? Yeah, we all know Ariza basically won that Denver series with his hustle/defense alone. Outside of that, what gives? If Ariza is, say, even just a little better -- is that enough to offset what Artest brings offensively and in the physical/mental edge department? When Artest doesn't have his tunnelvision triggered on, he can be a knockdown shooter/scorer that can take over games in ways Ariza can't. Sure, Kobe and Artest will have their moments with Kobe's control issues and Artest's tunnelvision but is that really going to matter next June during the playoffs whenever teams have a tendency to start clicking? What's your argument going to be -- that Ariza's 3-4 PPG off transition buckets (that Artest wont give you) is enough to offset all that? What would you have done if you were the Lakers? Overpay for a young player that you probably feel you can replace or sign an established two-way player like Artest for LESS money? Not only for less money, but a player with a reputation for bringing the type of toughness/intensity/edge that your team has lacked even despite winning a championship. I've watched Artest play for a long time through all his up's and down's. I can honestly say i've never seem him coast the way this Lakers team has a tendency to do.
And how many good 2s are there in the league? Roy, Wade, Manu when healthy, that's about it. Kobe is always motivated to shut down an all star 2, and just play pass lane otherwise. Artest had little success back down Kobe 'coz Kobe's strong, good luck if Roy/Wade/Manu tried that.
you overrate the Rox toughness without Ron-Ron his checker past. if Ron-Ron is bad as you have made it up to be, given his checkered past, there would be no interest in him. there is a reason that the Champs jump at the opportunity to sign 30-yr od Artes, instead of the 24-yr od Arriza. Ron-Ron is the much better all-around baller, simple as that.
he will, most probably, stay w the Lakers to ease the transition for his childhood friend from NY.Odom, Artest and Elton Brand had played on the samee AAU team in NY
That's what everyone brings up. That Ron took the shots he did because no one else we had could take them.... But when Tmac and Ron were both on the court (which was rare) he still took those shots. Even though he was coming here to be a role player, he never subscribed to that role. I remember when Tmac was hurt for good and he was starting for good, he said something like "I should have been starting." Not only that, he clashed with Reggie Friggin Miller. Reggie was/is the man in Indiana. All i'm saying is, maybe Ron doesn't try to take over because of Kobe's presence...but Gasol, i'm pretty sure Artest is going to take shots away from him and how is Gasol going to handle that? You can assume he'll just fall in line, and if he does...then that makes the Lakers worse. Gasol is much more efficient on Offense...but still, Gasol has actually demanded touches in the post-season when he wasn't getting it...so when he sees Artest jack up 10 3 pointers and the team loses...how is the team going to handle that? Yeah Phil dealt with Rodman, but I don't remember Rodman thinking he could score 25 ppg either.
