1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Does Morey value the Princeton offense? (thinly disguised coach suggestions thread)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jopatmc, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_offense

    The Princeton offense is an offensive basketball strategy which emphasizes constant motion, passing, back-door cuts, and disciplined teamwork. It was used and perfected at Princeton University by Pete Carril, though its roots may be traced back to Franklin “Cappy” Cappon, who coached Princeton Tigers men's basketball in the late 1930s[citation needed], and Bernard "Red" Sarachek, who coached at Yeshiva University from 1938 to 1977.[1]

    The offense is designed for a unit of 5 players who can each pass, shoot and dribble at an above average level. It attempts to isolate and exploit a mismatch using these skills.[2]

    The offense usually starts out with four players outside the three-point arc with one player at the top of the key. The ball is kept in constant motion through passing until either a mismatch allows a player to cut to the basket or a player without the ball cuts toward the unoccupied area under and around the basket, and is passed the ball for a layup. Having a strong post player is important because this player is critical to passing to backdoor cutters, and can draw help defense to open outside shots.

    The hallmark of the offense is the backdoor pass, where a player on the wing suddenly moves in towards the basket, receives a bounce pass from a guard on the perimeter, and (if done correctly) finds himself with no defenders between him and a layup. Alternatively, when the defensive team attempts to pack the paint to prevent backdoor cuts, the offense utilizes three point shots from the perimeter. All five players in the offense—including the center—should be competent at making a three point attempt, further spreading the floor.

    The offense is a very slow developing one, relying on a high number of passes, and is often used by teams facing opponents with superior athletic talent, to maintain a low-scoring game (believing that a high-scoring game would favor the athletically superior opponent). As a result, Princeton has led the nation in scoring defense 19 times including every year from 1989–2000.[3] Maybe this explains why our defense got so much better as our offensive efficiency improved??

    Examples of use
    Versions of the Princeton offense have been run by the New Orleans Hornets, New Jersey Nets, Sacramento Kings, and Washington Wizards in the NBA[4]. It was introduced by Rick Adelman to the Houston Rockets for the 2007-08 season[citation needed]. Coach Eddie Jordan implemented this offense while coach of both the Washington Wizards (2003–2008) and the Philadelphia 76ers (2009–2010). It is only rarely used in the NCAA — in part because it requires all five players on the floor to be adept at ball handling, dribbling, passing, and shooting.[citation needed]

    Some of the college teams best known for utilizing the offense (besides, of course, Princeton) are:

    Georgetown Hoyas under John Thompson III, who played under Carril at Princeton and was later its head coach
    Air Force under Joe Scott, a former Carril player and protege and former Princeton head coach
    Northwestern under Bill Carmody, another Carril protege and a former Princeton head coach
    Richmond under Chris Mooney, a former Princeton player and assistant coach at Air Force
    Cornell University from 2000 to 2010[5] and currently Boston College[6] under Steve Donahue.[7]
    Brown University and Oregon State University under Craig Robinson, a former Princeton player and Northwestern assistant coach
    Samford University under Jimmy Tillette
    University of Southern California under Tim Floyd (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!)
    University of Denver under former Princeton coach Joe Scott
    Monmouth University under Dave Calloway
    University of North Dakota under Brian Jones
    University of Virginia under Tony Bennett, loosely based on the general principles of the Princeton Offense
    University of Colorado, currently[8] under head coach Jeff Bzdelik
    University of Wisconsin, under coach Bo Ryan, runs the Swing Offense, which is loosely based on the Princeton.

    At the NCAA II Level:
    The University of Alabama in Huntsville under Lennie Acuff
    Rollins College under Tom Klusman
    Seattle Pacific University under Jeff Hironaka
    Christian Brothers University under Mike Nienaber

    Use at PrincetonDuring his tenure at Princeton (1967–1996), Carril compiled a 514-261 (.658 winning percentage) record as the best record of any coach in Ivy League basketball history. His teams won 13 Ivy League championships during his 29-year tenure with the Tigers, and his teams received 11 NCAA Tournament berths and 2 NIT berths. Princeton captured the NIT title in 1975.

    After his retirement from Princeton, Carril served as an assistant coach for the NBA's Sacramento Kings until 2006. During his time with Sacramento, Carril helped Rick Adelman, who became the Kings' head coach in 1998, install the Princeton offense and saw the Kings blossom into one of the best teams in the NBA.[citation needed]

    Pete Carril returned to the Sacramento Kings during the 2008-2009 season as a consultant.

    Former Princeton Tigers men's basketball coach Sydney Johnson and his predecessors Bill Carmody, John Thompson III and Joe Scott all employed the Princeton Offense.[2]

    References1.^ "Red Sarachek Dies At 93, November 16, 2005". MacsLive. http://www.macslive.com/sarachek/info.php?page=news&newsid=87. Retrieved March 22, 2010.
    2.^ a b Plutnicki, Ken (2009-02-10). "The Quad Q.& A.: Princeton Coach Sydney Johnson". The New York Times. http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/the-quad-q-a-princeton-coach-sydney-johnson/. Retrieved 2011-03-13.
    3.^ "Division I Records". National Collegiate Athletic Association. p. 48. http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/m_basketball_RB/2010/D1.pdf. Retrieved 2010-09-24.
    4.^ http://www.coachesclipboard.net/PrincetonOffense.html
    5.^ http://cornellbigred.com/sports/2007/7/31/MBKBHistory.aspx?path=mbball
    6.^ http://bceagles.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/bc-m-baskbl-mtt.html
    7.^ http://www.tomahawknation.com/2011/1/22/1949908/previewing-the-boston-college-eagles
    8.^ "Tulsa looks to end its recent skid". http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/139548391. Retrieved 2010-01-12.
    Sources This article includes a list of references, related reading or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations. Please improve this article by introducing more precise citations where appropriate. (February 2009)

    "Princeton Offense Keeps Hoyas on the Move", Washington Post, Mike Wise, March 23, 2006; Page E12.
    "On the Offensive: Inside the Wizards "Princeton Offense"", WashingtonWizards.com, Dave Johnson, December 28, 2006
    "Reading (the defense) is fundamental", Fran Fraschilla; ESPN.
    Block, Curt: "Secrets of the Princeton Offense," American Basketball Quarterly
    "Hoyas arrive at Atlanta through back door" Randy Hill / Special to FOXSports.com, 3/28/3007
    "Race and the Georgetown Offense" by Sean Gregory for Time Magazine, March 29, 2007
    "Carril Is Yoda to Notion of Perpetual Motion" New York Times, March 30, 2007
     
  2. Captain Hook

    Captain Hook Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    615
    I dont really think Morey likes the Princeton offense. I think he will get a coach who would do more iso motion and etc. I dont think he traded a first rounder for Terrence Williams to run back door cuts. He knows TWill is a very good 1 on 1 player and is not really a guy who would thrive in the princeton offense
     
  3. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,570
    Morey will have the next coach implement the MIT offense, not the Princeton offense.

    Princeton = Old School

    MIT = New School
     
  4. Captain Hook

    Captain Hook Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    615
    I think Morey wants more of a defensive minded coach. A Tom Thibadeaux(however you spell it) type of coach
     
  5. Captain Hook

    Captain Hook Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    615

    whats MIT?
     
  6. Mashing

    Mashing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    568
    I like Adelman's offense, but hopefully this will be the case with a new coach. Pick n' roll and ISO. Like we did with Yao and T-Mac. We had 50+ wins with that kind of offense (and much better defense).
     
  7. Captain Hook

    Captain Hook Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    615
    In the NBA now you need defense to win games. We have to do whatever it takes to get DeAndre Jordan
     
  8. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    15,079
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    The Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It is Morey's alma mater.
     
  9. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387

    What you need in the NBA to win is spread. That means the ability to score more than the opponent. The Princton offense is all about taking less talented teams and negating the effectiveness of more athletic teams.

    For you guys that think that Adelman wouldn't have won 50+ with just Yao and this bunch as opposed to the 50 JVG won with Yao and McGrady, you're fooling yourself.

    I want better defense. But iso and pick and roll offense is not better defense. I don't want to trade Adelman's offense in for a slow it down grind it out stand around offense and a grinder defense like JVG gave us. That is going backwards.

    The Princeton offense is all about getting a favorable matchup for the one-on-one move or the cut for a layup or wide open 3 point shot as the defense is forced to double. It's an offense designed to work down a defense and give your own players the opportunity to not have to dig down on defense for as many minutes during the game. It's an offense designed to run clock and yield a high percentage shot. We need to continue with the Princeton offense principles, and keep upgrading the players, and get better defensively as we get longer and more athletic.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    16,465
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    You need to turn on your sarcasm / schtick meter. :p
     
  11. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387
    Messina in Texas??
     
  12. roslolian

    roslolian Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    24,401
    Likes Received:
    14,684
    While Adelman's offense is based on Princeton, I think his read-and-react offense is significantly different from the traditional princeton offense.

    For one thing, the R&R is extremely explosive and relies more on gut feel, while the Princeton is extremely methodical and deliberate. Also notice how the Princeton aims to slow the ball down, while the R&R had us going at a breakneck pace.

    I think Eddie Jordan is the more traditional practitioner of the princeton, and honestly watching the Wizards were pure torture except for the occasional agent zero explosion.
     
  13. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387


    Good points. I agree. Adelman took the starch out of it and let players go for the shot or the cut when it was there, even if it was 7 seconds into the shot clock.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,104
    Likes Received:
    13,481
    I went :eek: when I saw not just 1 but 2! posters advocating an iso and P&R offense. They can be effective plays in the right space, but can't imagine that's anyone's dreamboat offense.
     
  15. mario_v

    mario_v Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,934
    Likes Received:
    2,852
    :confused:
    I agree, it's unbelievable that we have people that want to go back to a simplified, basic, pick n roll, iso offense. It really show how clueless some clutchfans members are:confused:.

    Make no mistake about it, we do not have the personell to effectively score on just iso, pick n roll. For ex. lowry, hayes, lee, budinger are all players that depend on the system to get their points. If you reduce this team to iso, pnr, our offense will not produce.

    Sure, most nba teams seem to primarily rely on iso and pick n rolls, because they have superstars to make that happen, but we dont.
     
  16. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,076
    Likes Received:
    21,286
    The Princeton is the solitary reason I am extremely worried about next year.

    Also, it takes a good two years to learn, even longer for some.

    We had a huge advantage in chemistry developing.

    Lastly, the Princeton gave us the hope that maybe we could upset a team that was more talented if only we had a bit better defense.

    I want Elston Turner.
     
  17. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387

    meh, not going to happen. Not sure if he's that good anyways.


    There's one name not on the list above that stands out to me. Worzell already hit on it. Innovative, ball mover, thinking man's coach, great communicator. I'm pretty convinced Morey and Les are going to go after him. Remember the quote, "Don't judge the name, judge the results."
     
  18. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,233
    Likes Received:
    147
    I also agree. Morey definitely knows that isolation plays are statistically the least effective, so why would he hire a coach who plans to base a large portion of the offense on isolation?
     
  19. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    387
    I don't think he will.


    They're gonna shock the league and the whole world with this coaching hire.
     
  20. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    12,650
    Likes Received:
    2,913
    We run a variation of the Princeton.

    Regardless, if I were calling the shots I would merely promote one of Adelman's assistants (Sikma now that Turner withdrew from consideration) and keep his system largely in place. It works. We can make defensive adjustments/upgrades elsewhere.

    If we move towards a more traditional halfcourt offense we're going to need more than just one true playmaker. We're also going to need more than just 1.5 true post up players (Scola + 0.5 for Yao).

    Bottom line: installing the type of halfcourt offense that most viable coaching candidates would offer involves a roster shakedown. Granted, Morey has alluded to such things in interviews so maybe this has been "the plan" all along.

    All I know is I trust Morey and he needs to deliver here with 100% of the pressure on his back.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now