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Does Kerry Own an SUV?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by dc sports, Apr 23, 2004.

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Does Kerry Own an SUV?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    92.3%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  3. Unsure

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  1. Woofer

    Woofer Contributing Member

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    We may as well ding anyone who eats meat as not an environmentalist either then because it takes oodles of petroleum to get one cow ready for slaughter. So that makes those folks on the Atkins diet some of the worst polluters ever.
     
  2. mrpaige

    mrpaige Contributing Member

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    I'm more concerned by the idea that he drives a Dodge 600. That was one of the K-cars (and, generally speaking, older cars pollute more than newer cars. I believe the last year the Dodge 600 was made was 1988).

    BTW, a Chrysler 300M gets gas mileage about on par with the smaller SUVs like the Ford Escape or Hyundai Santa Fe.

    "I want cars to be made in Michigan, made in America, made" by the United Auto Workers, Kerry said.

    The Chrysler 300M is made in Canada.

    "We're going to keep jobs in America and help the industry be more competitive with foreign manufacturers that are building those cars today," Kerry said.

    The Chrysler 300M is made by what is essentially a foreign manufacturer at this point.
     
  3. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    Two options here:
    1. You are so trivial that you'd never be able to get out of bed if are looking this hard for problems w/ presidential candidates.
    2. You already have your mind made up and are using this as propoganda.

    I'll go w/ #2 since this statement is so meaningless in the larger picture.

    I doubt the 300M is made 100% in Canada. The truth is that virtually no automobile is made 100% in any one country anymore. Virtually every car made is manufactured, assembled, or contains signifcant parts that were manufactured or assembled in other countries.

    I'm sure you know this. So to raise this point is another a weak propaganda attempt.
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Who cares? I want him elected President, since he is the alternative to Bush.
    I don't care if he drives a tank... just look good doing it! ;)
     
  5. ron413

    ron413 Contributing Member

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    I guess it all depends on what your definition of SUV is?
     
  6. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    All of this is just classic John Forbes Kerry. CLASSIC. Saying he doesn't have an SUV when in fact his wife does. That's like saying he doesn't have access to the Heinz fortune (his wifie does!). What a joke. It is examples like this that make people think that Forbes Kerry is willing to say or do *anything* to make himself more appealing to voters. That's why they call him the Flip Flopper Supreme.
     
  7. mrpaige

    mrpaige Contributing Member

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    3. You take my slam of the Dodge 600 too seriously (though it is generally true that older cars contribute more to pollution than newer cars, though I don't know about his particular car).


    Then Kerry's talk of wanting cars to be made in Detroit is pandering and unrealistic given that parts come from all sorts of places, and a weak attempt at pandering at that.

    All we know is that the car Kerry chose to purchase was not made in Detroit and was produced by what is, a foreign-owned manufacturer.

    As a consumer, he made a choice of vehicle based on his needs and desires. That's what everyone does, and there's nothing wrong with it. I don't even think it's logically inconsistent with wanting higher fuel efficiency standards.

    But people gave Pat Buchannan crap for talking about wanting to protect American jobs while driving a different Daimler Chrysler product. Should not Kerry be held to that same standard?
     
    #27 mrpaige, Apr 23, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2004
  8. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    This is such a meaningless topic.

    You want a meaningful topic?
    How about when W ignored UN inspectors request for additional time to find WMD and basically shunned the entire UN to the point where people felt the existance of the UN itself was in jeaperdy.

    Now W has publicaly stated that they need more time to finish searching Iraq before we can draw any conclusions. And is now asking for UN involvment.

    Flip Flop? Lets talk about meaningful flip flops, shall we?
     
  9. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    You see: there's the problem for you. Don't go hoping for such concepts if you're going to "discuss" anything with Trader_Jorge.

    HIS MIDDLE NAME -- JUST LOOK AT IT!
    HE MAY BE HIDING AS MANY AS ONE OF HIS WAR INJURIES!
    HE CAMPAIGNS IN A JET LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
    HIS WIFE SELLS KETCHUP -- LOTS OF KETCHUP!

    These are especially great considering the following contrasting points:

    1. Walker is a fine American name. Just look at "Walker, Texas Ranger"!
    2. W's only hidden war injury is housed in his liver.
    3. W's jet exhaust is irrelevant when compared to the nation's levels of exhaust under his policies.
    4. W's wife is humble and fairly connectionless. She smiles and makes nice appearances on TV with black children.

    I guess it's case closed indeed.
     
  12. mrpaige

    mrpaige Contributing Member

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    It does. A 2WD Toyota RAV4, for example, gets better gas mileage than my Nissan Altima and has slightly less greenhouse gas emissions. The RAV4 buyer, even though they're buying an SUV, is doing more for the environment than I am by buying a regular sedan.

    But the person who buys a 5.4L 4WD Ford Expedition quite obviously isn't.

    And some of the worst gas mileage offenders aren't SUVs, but sports cars.

    I do think the standards need to constantly evolve as technology gets better, etc. even though consumers, of late, haven't been demanding better gas mileage (and seem to not take gas mileage into account all that much when making their purchase decisions) because if we can do better without taking away consumer choice or costing too much, why not do so.

    But I don't like this demonizing of consumer choice (when it's done, and it is done often, though I'm not accusing Kerry of doing so anywhere here). I don't think it helps things. I think it makes people defensive, and I think it hampers progress. We have to accept that a large number of buyers want SUVs right now and adjust whatever needs to be adjusted accordingly.
     
  13. Chump

    Chump Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    lol. Nice. That's pretty much sums up this topic.

    Next.
     
  15. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    I agree it is weak statement by Kerry. But who cares? The fact is that people aren't going to be taking this silly issue in making decisions about our presidency. Any such mention is strickly used for right wing propoganda to shore up people's opinions that have already made their decision.

    But to speak of the American Made issue:
    Even though Daimler-Chysler is merged, headquarters for U.S. operations is still in Detroit. Daimler announced they did not have plans change functional operations to Germany.

    And Daimler retains 51% ownership while Chrysler retains 49% ownership. So we are really splitting hairs here esp. given that headquarters hasn't moved.

    Finally, U.S. regulations that require reporting of American vs. Foreign made cars does not differentiate between America and Canada. For reporting purposes, they are the same. Just because they are assembled in Ontario, doesn't indicate where the parts are manufactured.

    Chrysler is a recognized American brand...even though it is watered down now. But I think most people realize the globalization of the auto industry and and it isn't an issue.
     
  16. bamaslammer

    bamaslammer Contributing Member

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    We as Americans could only wish for such a positive event, the dismantling of the UN. The UN is a corrupt, anti-American body that is no different than the failed League of Nations. For chrissakes, Libya chairs the Human Rights Commission!
     
  17. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    1. If wished for dismantling of the UN, then why are we actively trying to involve them in Iraq?

    2. We are on the verge of re-establishing trade talks w/ Libya.

    3. Yea, cause America is the picture purity and non-corruption. (ahem Halliburton, Enron, Florida election and other lose connections back to the standing administration.) BTW, I'm not making allegations...I'm simply identifying controversial elements in our society that introduce notions of a conflict of interest that I'm sure the rest of the world views w/ skepticism.
     
  18. TL

    TL Contributing Member

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    The American public wants SUVs. There are SUVs out there that get decent gas mileage, but people still prefer the giant Canyaneros. Why should the auto companies waste precious capital on an R&D project that Americans don't seem to really want?
     
  19. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    The options are pathetically small.

    Mileage isn't the only factor for consumers. Style, features, performance are others.

    If Detroit could figure that out, people would buy gas friendly models if the whole package was considered. But the choice remains is pathetic as of now.

    But soon, some SUV hybrids will come out. We'll find out if Americans will buy it. I think many will esp. if gas prices keep going up.
     
  20. bamaslammer

    bamaslammer Contributing Member

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    This little fracas is proof of what kind man John Kerry is. He's been caught in a bit of hyprocricy (do as I say, not as I do!) and yet he lacks the balls to admit it (Those aren't my SUVs, but my family's!!). I think it is hilarious that a man who vents so much hot air about how the Bush admin is supposedly destroying the environment (which is a lie, as it has been for years when concerning Republicans and the environment) does even set a good example himself.
     

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