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Does Drayton McLane have the know-how to build a championship team?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Drewdog, Mar 26, 2002.

  1. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    We have an excellent team as it is right now. Do you disagree that it will be title contenders for many years if we can keep it together?

    My cap comment was based on the fact that McClane puts a "cap" on Hunsicker which is around 60-65 mil.

    Concerning this season, we lost Astacio's and Williams's contracts and we extended Billy Wagner and Lance Berkman. I have no problem with slowly losing our expensive contracts and extending our young guys. FA signings are not quite so necessary when you have young players coming up behind them. I am quite confident that after this next season is over, we will all have forgotten how mad we were when Alou and Castilla were allowed to leave. Ward will produce, and Ensberg will hit at least as well as Castilla.

    You cannot judge an owner/GM on how many major FA acquisitions they have made. Like you say, we haven't had a major one since '93. And what has happened since then? 4 divisions championships.

    I'll take it.
     
  2. Buck Turgidson

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    OK, I'll ask again: WHO SHOULD WE HAVE SIGNED??? I'm "not a GM" either, but it's simple to look over the FA signings this offseason & tell us what the 'Stros should have done differently.

    It's real easy to constantly complain & point out negatives, how about providing a solution to the (perceived) problem?

    The key word is "once". Cleveland overspent for a number of years, despite the revenue increases from The Jake, & are now having to cut payroll & operate under a budget.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    Youth is great to have on the team, but lets face it, these kids simply dont have the playoff experience YET to get us to the World Series.

    I don't know about that. In our lineup, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Hidalgo, Ward, and Berkman have all been to the postseason, most of them several times. That's six starters, which is more offensive experience than most teams, I think.

    In terms of starting pitching, Reynolds, Miller, Mlicki all have postseason pitching experience and the latter two (in their first playoff years) performed very well. Oswalt and Hernandez are question marks, but they are both potential super-stars, and I don't really worry much about either one.

    Bullpenwise, Wagner has plenty of experience (maybe not-so-good experience, though). Dotel and Cruz were there last year. I don't know whoelse is even in our bullpen, so I can't comment on those.

    I think there's a good mix of experience and youth on this team. The only true "rookies" on the team really are Everett, Ensberg and Carlos Hernandez.

    I predict 108 wins this season. :D
     
  4. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    Also, Oswalt was abso-freaking-lutely CLUTCH in his pitching performances on the US gold medal winning Olympics baseball team. Personally, I think there would be more pressure playing for the entire nation than playing for one city.
     
    #24 RunninRaven, Mar 26, 2002
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2002
  5. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    I don't think its a matter of know-how. As someone pointed out, it's the Hun that makes baseball decisions anyway, not Drayton (usually). To me, if boils down to having the desire to win at all costs, or trying to turn a profit while staying competitive. The Stros have taken the latter course, and I can't say I blame them. If you can milk the fan base and turn a profit, while keeping a respectable team on the field, why not? It makes good business sense, especially in the short-term.
     
  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    O.K....For the last 5 years, year in and year out the Astros have been competitive except for 2000 which was an anomaly. The Astros have been voted the top organization (top to bottom) in baseball. McLane has invested HEAVILY in the minor league system. The Astros have the best presence in South America (in particular, Venezuela). Their minor league system is one of the best in the game. All of that takes quality people and the owner's money. Perhaps if the Astros chose to invest in free agency, we would not be seeing outstanding young talent like Carlos Hernandez or Richard Hidalgo. If the Astros invested heavily in free agency, they may not have had the talent to make the trade for Randy Johnson (Freddy Garcia was talent from their baseball academy).

    Look at this team - they lose Kile, Johnson and Hampton, yet don't miss a beat because they have the quality minor league system as well as scouts which enable them to keep finding talent. Miller and Oswalt were not high draft picks.

    The title of this thread is ridiculous. With the exception of 2000 the Astros have played championship caliber baseball for the past 5 years. Obviously we'd like to see some playoff wins. They have had and currently have a championship caliber team. Would you rather see them add 10-20 million to the payroll at the expense of their minor league system?

    The Astros have had the uncanny ability to replace quality with quality. My guess is that when all is said and done, the LF and 3B production will be quite similar to 2001 at a fraction of the cost. When Biggio is ready to retire, Chris Burke will probably be ready to replace him. When Bagwell is gone, Jason Lane may move into the OF and Ward move to 1B. When Ausmus is gone, John Buck will step in. And all the while, their minor league system will be staffing players to replace Lane, Burke and Buck.

    Keep in mind that holding onto some free agent money enables a team like Houston to make the big late season trade.

    Sorry for the long post, but the constant complaints against the ownership of a team that perenially makes the playoffs as well as having one of the top (if not the top) minor league systems in baseball grates my nerves.
     
  7. Drewdog

    Drewdog Contributing Member

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    Do they have a competitive team that might make the playoffs? Yes.
    Are they World Series material right now? No.

    I think if the team can stay together like I have said before, in 2-3 years we will be one of the best teams in baseball period.

    I dont see what is wrong with the thread title. Sure he invests lots of time/$$$ in the farm system, we have one of the best in baseball. But like Oakland, I fear that our younger talent are going to bid adeu for MUCH greener pastures out there when contract time comes around. Do you think that Drayton can afford all of the talent we are grooming in the minors??

    With our current payroll, and if the players we have keep getting better, like Oakland, we are merely a farm team for the richer teams in the league.
     
  8. haven

    haven Member

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    I agree mostly with the "Astros organization defenders" (especially as regards Alou and Castilla... paying big money to aging veterans is a good way to end up like the Orioles), but I do have one question:

    Isn't it true that the Astros actually rank higher on revenue charts than they do in payroll? I was under the impression that they turned a nice profit last year. While one could argue that baseball is a business, and therefore should be profitable, that's a little out of synch with reality. Baseball seems more of a prestige symbol for rich men than anything else. Or perhaps a hobby for them. And as such, they make most of their money in the increasing valuation of the teams, not revenue.

    If this is true, then McClane could be considering to "stiffing" the team when compared to other franchises. I completely agree that fiscal responsibility is necessary and that he isn't obligated to throw away his money... but I also think that is the above is true, then we need a new owner who plays by the same rules as everyone else.
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

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    Amen. It basically boils down to: some people just like to b*tch, no matter the reality of the situation, & no amount of discourse will change their minds.
     
  10. Drewdog

    Drewdog Contributing Member

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    The day we win the World Series with a $65 million dollar payroll, is the day I will take each and every one of you out to Tony's for dinner.

    With the new era of baseball economics getting out of hand, there is no way in hell we can keep up with the higher payroll teams.
     
  11. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member

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    We have one of the best starting 5s in baseball to go along with three of the top young hitters in the game in Hildalgo, Berkman, and Ward. Throw in a shortstop with defensive skills this city has never seen before. Mix in a couple of savey vets in Bagwell and Biggio that could be headed for break-out years. A bench that is deep and very versital with good speed and great veteran leadership. The bull-pen doesn't look bad either when you have a kid who could be starting to go along setup men Cruz and Dotel, throw in the best closer in baseball, and I think we might be headed in right direction. :confused:
    I forgot to metion one of the top teachers in the game, and the very best general manager in Hunsicker.
    I think Drayton's doing a pretty good job. :)
     
  12. Puedlfor

    Puedlfor Contributing Member

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    The comparison to Oakland isn't necesarily valid, because Oakland has a 35 million dollar cap on the payroll or thereabouts. The only reason Oakland stays competitive is because Billy Beane is a genius. The Astros are not quite so hamstrung by lack of revenue as the A's are.
     
  13. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Drewdog

    Unlike basketball, football and hockey, any baseball team that makes the playoffs has a realistic shot at winning the World Series. If the Astros (or any team) have enough talent to win their division (don't forget, last year they had the BEST record in the national league), they certainly have enough talent to win the World Series.

    I assume that you think they were a World Series caliber team last year. This season, their pitching should be better. Their bench looks like it will be better and, I truly believe their everyday lineup will be as good as last year's team.

    Think about it, of their current starting lineup only Berkman had a better than expected year last year. Ausmus and Hidalgo were noticeably down. Biggio and Bagwell were close to their normal production. Their bench was not very good. Merced had some big hits, but that was about it. Blum, Zaun, Lugo and Hunter should be better than Truby, Eusebio, Hayes and Barker.

    Alou had a great year through the middle of August. He hit .226 in September and .250 in October with a .754 OPS (each month). he'll be missed, but Ward should suffice.

    Last year's starting rotation was Elarton, Reynolds, Miller, Lima and Bottenfeld (after Dotel was moved to the bullpen) to start the season. Oswalt, Hernandez and Mlicki replace Elarton, Lima and Bottenfeld. I certainly feel better about that.

    Haven

    I believe the Astros are one of the team that "lost" money according to MLB, but doesn't Arthur Andersen do their books? :)
     
  14. Puedlfor

    Puedlfor Contributing Member

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    And therein lies the difference between this years team and last years.

    Even if our young pitching falters, and Reynolds and Mlicki stumble throughout the season - it STILL won't be as bad as the train-wreck that our staff was last year at the start of the season.
     
  15. Drewdog

    Drewdog Contributing Member

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    Dont get me wrong, I feel damn good about this season, and think that we definitely have playoff potenetial. I just worry about the future and how the team will be able to keep all of these wonderful young prospects with Drayton's penny pinching buget ways.

    Abvove all, Jimy Williams was the BIGGEST aqusition we made this offseason. I just love the guy. He took a team that consisted of basically Nomar, Pedro, and role players, all the way to the ALCS when nobody thought they had a chance in hell. His coaching abilities can not be underestimated. I think he will make a huge difference this season.
     
  16. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    This is a reflection of the current state of the league and not the current state of our owner. Everyone (except the players) pretty much agree that a slary cap can only be a good thing for the sport. As is, we still have the possibility of keeping up with the higher payroll teams year in and year out anyway.
     
  17. Buck Turgidson

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    Yeah, it's done wonders for the quality of play in the NFL. Give me TV/radio revenue sharing, a salary floor, & the luxury tax.
     
    #37 Buck Turgidson, Mar 27, 2002
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2002
  18. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Well some kind of "regulations" are definitely needed. And I definitely wouldn't mind seeing some more parity in baseball anyway.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    Yeah, it's done wonders for the quality of play in the NFL. Give me TV/radio revenue sharing, a salary floor, & the luxury tax.

    Say what you want about the NFL, but every team has an equal opportunity to be successful. And no, it's not simply luck.

    As for a luxury tax / revenue-sharing, you'd think everyone would be happy with that. The players association used to say that was a great idea (when the owners wanted a salary cap). Well, now their tune has changed. Now, they don't feel there's a competitive balance problem, and there's no need for additional revenue sharing.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0326/1358482.html

    Owners say baseball is losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually and has a competitive-balance problem. They have proposed a vast increase in revenue sharing and a 50 percent luxury tax on the portions of payrolls above $98 million.

    ...


    Players are skeptical of management's claims of losses and haven't agreed that competitive balance is a problem. The union doesn't want to drain the high-revenue teams of money they would otherwise spend on salaries, and it has no interest in a luxury tax that would slow the increase in salaries.


    Who the hell DOESN'T think competitive balance is a problem? I'd like to see the person who argues NYY doesn't have an advantage over Montreal.
     
  20. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I haven't read this entire thread yet...I got to this one and stopped because it's so dead on!! It's not like the Astros haven't had the talent to get to the NL Championship or even to the World Series...he's put a team out on the field that is easily capable of doing so. They finished with the best record in the NL last year...and in 98 they had the second best record in the NL.

    McLane can not go out there and swing the bats for them in the playoffs...he can't make Dierker avoid pinch hitting Chris Truby in key situations...he can't help Lugo field the damn ball. He put a quality team on the field...the blame doesn't go to management, but rather to the players and coaches. The organization was named Baseball Organization of the Year last year...it's very well run.

    oh, yeah..and one more thought...anybody else remember how bad this franchise was BEFORE Drayton was the owner??? This team NEVER participated in free agency (except to lose players!) prior to McLane...they never made big trades...they won their division twice in about 30 years. Since McLane has taken ownership, the franchise is definitely much improved. Management is as good as it's ever been.
     
    #40 MadMax, Mar 27, 2002
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2002

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