Does Defense win Championships or not?

There's this dude named Tim Duncan, you may have heard of him.

 

Of course it does. Your best offense is a great defense, fact.

 

Yeah I agree.

Defence is important but no team can win without a consistent offense from a superstar or a balanced team. Anyway, right now great offensive players like Kobe, Lebron, Durant are much better than any defensive player in the league.

 

Ok, I didn't want to use durvasa style to prove a point, but the back and forth has been killing me. Some people believe in living through extremes like using the suns or warriors as examples even though both teams have been further in the playoffs than the rockets recently. So i will do this, I will list the past 20 champions and use their offensive and defensive effeciency as the water mark. I will start with the 88-89 pistons and move down the board.

88-89 Pistons
Offensive Rating: 110.8 (7th of 25) ▪ Defensive Rating: 104.7 (3rd of 25)
89-90 Pistons
Offensive Rating: 109.9 (11th of 27) ▪ Defensive Rating: 103.5 (2nd of 27)
90-91 Bulls
Offensive Rating: 114.6 (1st of 27) ▪ Defensive Rating: 105.2 (7th of 27)
91-92 Bulls
Offensive Rating: 115.5 (1st of 27) ▪ Defensive Rating: 104.5 (4th of 27)
92-93 Bulls
Offensive Rating: 112.9 (2nd of 27) ▪ Defensive Rating: 106.1 (7th of 27)
93-94 Rockets
Offensive Rating: 105.9 (15th of 27) ▪ Defensive Rating: 101.4 (2nd of 27)
94-95 Rockets
Offensive Rating: 109.7 (7th of 27) ▪ Defensive Rating: 107.4 (12th of 27)
95-96 Bulls
Offensive Rating: 115.2 (1st of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 101.8 (1st of 29)
96-97 Bulls
Offensive Rating: 114.4 (1st of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 102.4 (4th of 29)
97-98 Bulls
Offensive Rating: 107.7 (9th of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 99.8 (3rd of 29)
98-99 Spurs
Offensive Rating: 104.0 (11th of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 95.0 (1st of 29)
99-00 Lakers
Offensive Rating: 107.3 (5th of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 98.2 (1st of 29)
00-01 Lakers
Offensive Rating: 108.4 (2nd of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 104.8 (21st of 29)
01-02 Lakers
Offensive Rating: 109.4 (2nd of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 101.7 (7th of 29)
02-03 Spurs
Offensive Rating: 105.6 (7th of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 99.7 (3rd of 29)
03-04 Pistons
Offensive Rating: 102.0 (18th of 29) ▪ Defensive Rating: 95.4 (2nd of 29)
04-05 Spurs
Offensive Rating: 107.5 (8th of 30) ▪ Defensive Rating: 98.8 (1st of 30)
05-06 Heat
Offensive Rating: 108.7 (7th of 30) ▪ Defensive Rating: 104.5 (9th of 30)
06-07 Spurs
Offensive Rating: 108.7 (7th of 30) ▪ Defensive Rating: 104.5 (9th of 30)
07-08 Celtics
Offensive Rating: 110.2 (10th of 30) ▪ Defensive Rating: 98.9 (1st of 30)
08-09 Lakers
Offensive Rating: 112.8 (3rd of 30) ▪ Defensive Rating: 104.7 (6th of 30)

So take those stats for whats its worth and break them down however you please. If you notice, there was only 4 teams outside the top 10 in offense and 2 in defense. Everey team had at least 1 hall of famer with the exception of the 04 pistons. So where does the rockets fall? Well, they haven't been higher than 15 offensively since yao and tracy era started. Also, they don't have a great or hall of fame player right now who can carry a team for stretches. The teams that had those below top 10 offenses, 3 had great players ( 90 pistons,94 rockets,99 spurs) and the 04 pistons had a collection of really good high end players. Again, take those for what its worth, but they tell alot about what teams are capable of winning a ring and those who are not.

 

low scoring games does not mean bad offense, the spurs and pistons just played at a very slow pace which suited their players and strategy... just look at the offensive ratings posted above.

 

Yet, in 11 of these you listed, the offensive is at least as good as the defense in rank. MYTH BUSTED?

 

Point differential wins championships. Right now, every team in the NBA with a net-positive point differential is in the playoffs (if the season ended today).

Oh yeah, except one: the Houston Rockets.

 

Morey never said defense is underrated. What he said was that defensive PLAYERS were mostly undervalued BECAUSE the boxscore is greatly tilted to showing the offensive stats.

There is a big difference between saying defense is underrated and defensive players are undervalued. As many people already said, Morey was quoted to say that you had to have BOTH offense and defense in the top 10 to be a contender.

 

Which is what I've been telling thses one way thinkers. The rockets have struggled in the playoffs because they were out of balance. Even with adelman who is known more as an offensive coach, the rocket have fizzed out. Team must be offensively effecient to win in the playoffs. If not, you will play against a player who is the best player on the court and win games by themselves . That why after the first title, they traded for clyde. Anyone watching could see how hard it was for the rockets to score points if it wasn't from dream.

 

I think that it can but ultimately of course the best players do. This Rockets team, this year is playing incredibly cohesively but they still can't compete with teams like Orlando because those teams simply have more talent. Players like Carter, Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis aren't really defensive juggernauts either. Of course, there can be exceptions, like those beastly runs that the Celtics would go on a couple years ago where they would go on 7-0 runs over like 5 minutes and increase leads with what was at times, sub-par offense, but overall, the best players do.

 

Defense helps you win championships but it does not win championships alone. You have to be able to defend the opponents as well as be a better offensive team.

Look at the Rockets during the Jeff Van Gundy days. The Rockets were one of the best defensive team in the NBA. But that cannot even get the Rockets out of the first round. The Rockets were indeed a great defensive team but their offense wasn't as great. That's why they were never successful in the post season.

If the Rockets were more balanced, then they would have more success. The Rockets were built to play great D but they don't really have any offensive players beside Tmac and Yao. That's the reason for their failure. Both are great players indeed, but them 2 alone are not good enough to lead a team that can't play offense. Because no matter how great of a D they played, they can never score enough with just Tmac and Yao. No even Lebron or Kobe can do so alone. The team have to be offensively balanced as well as defense. But defense alone does not work. I mean besides Tmac and Yao, Rafer Alston was the 3rd option. That shows you how crappy the Rockets offense were back then. Their biggest failures was the Rockets believing that with great defense and Tmac and Yao would provide enough offense for the team to win. That's why they can never advance.

When Rick Adelman came to Houston, they soon realized that Tmac and Yao weren't good enough so they finally decided to add more offensive players in Scola, Landry, Brooks etc. Along with Artest who can play great intensive D and a good offensive player that can create his own shot, the Rockets were finally balanced on both ends of the floor. But injuries prevented this team from reaching their full potential. The Rockets team that took the Lakers to game 7 is probably one of the best team they had this decade. If only they replaced Tmac with Kevin Martin and Yao didn't get injured. They would hung a new banner in Toyota Center.

But overall, a great defense will always be beaten by a better offense. Balance on both ends of the court wins championship. Defense limits the opponents scoring but offense should be great in order to score more than the opponent.

 

Thank you for posting that, leebigez. I was a little too lazy to when this thread first started but it still proves my point. There have been 4 teams to win a championship without having a good offense.

There have only been 2 teams to win a championship without having a good regular season defense (the '96 Bulls and the '01 Lakers). I specify regular season because both teams locked in defensively in the post season and were ranked 1st, managing to hold their opponents to under 100 points per possession.

So, yes, there is evidence that supports that you have no chance of winning a title without playing good defense while it is at least possible to win without a good offense.

And, I don't believe defense is ALL effort. You can't just throw together an offensively minded team expecting them to compete hard on defense. It won't happen.

 

Where you fail is you're not being rational and just replacing people isn't the answer. During the regular season.the lakers beat the rockets by an average of 13 ppg or so. In the playoffs, the rocket beat them in game 1, then la took the next 2. Even if yao had stayed up, or if the team had martin, you can't assume they would've won. One of the things the lakers are good at late games(pnr) the rockets aren't when yao plays. By no means will you hear me say they're a better team minus yao, but they're different. Go and watch some of thos e regular season games and see how when they needed a basket, they put yao in the pnr and got quality shots. Now, just because a team in the 2nd rd takes a the champ to 7 games doesn't mean they would've beaten them in 7 with someone else. Not to mention, all the games were blowouts except game 1 for the most part.

 

I trust all his Hall of Famer teammates too.