Do You Want Obama to pursue Prosecution For Torture

Lordy basso, you don't need a subscription to access this article. Did you say that to discourage people from looking for themselves and seeing this paragraph you conveniently ignored?

 

heeee-larious.

 

I'll add "pathetic" and "disgusting".

 

Wow...

I don't know what to say about that.

 

how about par for the course?

 

What a disgrace.

 

Lets not drag poor Clyde into this.

 

You certainly earned it.

 

From everything I've read regarding torture it doesn't seem to be reliable for intelligence gathering but I'm not going to say that absolutely there haven't been instances where it has provided usable intel or absolutely rule out some extreme situation where torture is considered the only viable option. Such situations I suspect though are very very rare and the most dangerous thing that we could do is make torture a standard practice that we use for fishing expeditions for intel.

Regarding its use on Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Zubaydeh and others I'm willing to state that I don't have all the facts and while what I have read so far is that torturing them didn't provide much usable intelligence but without more facts can't rule out that it did.

This is why I now feel the only way to ever resolve this is to have trials. If we feel that in an extreme situation our laws and principles no longer serve us then we need to hear why in that situation people felt that we had to go beyond our laws. We have a rule of law but ultimately that law is enforced and interpretted by humans and if the argument can be made that breaking the law was the only possible recourse then its doubtful there will be a prediction. Without putting such situations up to trial we will always exist in a grey area where the temptation to break laws without accountability will persist.

 

i think you, and tim noah, need to go back and read and read W's speech I linked to yesterday, which lays out the relation between the capture of AZ, his interrogation, the LA plot, and KSM.

and you and Tim perhaps need to climb back into your wormhole to some point prior to Sept.11th 2001, a date that no attack could have taken place, since those responsible were captured in 1993.

 

I don't care about the debate whether torture reveals "good" intelligence or not.

Ends do not justify means.


Further, this whole "no one praised Bush for keeping America Safe through torture" argument, or the latter "It prevented things that did not happen from happening" stuff is so incredibly typical of the fear mongering attitude that the past administration used to further their goals while they trampled the Geneva Conventions and our own constitution. Perpetuating this is not only pathetic, but offensive.

If Obama does pursue it, I hope it's not a public spectacle. While I think those who engaged and approved/ordered such behavior wrapped in our flag should be investigated in the very least, I don't see how public observation of this and media coverage will help, and it could be detrimental.

I don't know if I have an opinion on whether he should or not, I'll leave that to this administration. I can only hope they will temper their decision with what is right for this country, not personal or political agenda.

 

was it right for this country to kill three teenage pirates to protect one middle aged man?

 

If you don't see the difference between a rescue in which pirates are shot and killed, and torture of a captured suspect who was under our control, then you need to do some work and contemplation rather than post lies about which parts of articles are available.

 

Killing pirates to save a man who they kidnapped does not equal torture. One is a maritime law enforcement action and the other is an execrable practice that has been rightfully outlawed for decades.

 

what lies? i had to register to view. if you didn't bully for you.

 

You mean the LA plot which was foiled and canceled in February 2002 OVER ONE YEAR BEFORE HE WAS ARRESTED AND TORTURED? The one that you claim was was an imminent threat that was thwarted by means of his arrest? The one that was already broken up?

Basso - you only have one chance to redeem yourself from being laughingstock of the day.

You're going to have to find a way to prove that 2002 > 2003....this may be possible, but I believe you may have to re-learn the quadratic equation and then go from there, and then finally work your way up to very high level maths like Calabi-Yau manifolds and such.....it's going to be a long road, but your duties on the BBS demand it.

 

Considering that you just apparently altered your signature in response to your woodshedding this morning - it's fairly obvious. Maybe we should start a poll.

 

so, that would be no, you didn't go back and read what W actually said?

tant pis.

 

Well, I see the part about Zubayadh, which has now all been proven to be false.

I don't see the words "time machine" in reference to the LA plot that was disrupted, and then, according to the white house - canceled - in February 2002 - can you please point it out for me ?

Thanks in advance!