Do you want Mcgrady back on the team for the vet min?

Tracy had health problems. He just wasn't honest about them.
This has been well documented.


T-Mac says he feels back to old self
McGrady knows fans are frustrated, but says his conditioning has returned
TUESDAY, JANUARY 20, 2009 7:45 PM CST
http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1510/t-mac_says_he_feels_back_to_old_self/

By Clutch
Copyright 2009 ClutchFans.net
http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1515/adelman_i_had_no_idea_t-mac_was_out/

Adelman: I had no idea T-Mac was done
Rockets coach not happy, says first he heard McGrady news was through press
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2009 2:57 PM CST
By Clutch

I mean, if your company is paying you $25 million dollars/year to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, you'd think you tell them when you are sick.

If this guy is your favorite player, then so be it. I'm not going to change your mind, I'm just telling you what I see.

I find these articles on Clutchfans, it's a pretty good site.

 

I swear im either dumb or i just told you that i was a huge critic of his moved with the media during his last year with Houston...

 

Was it only the media?

http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1545/the_day_t-mac_lost_houston/

All of this history of course. Earlier in the thread someone boasted that McGrady would be more successful in other eras.

If it's the same McGrady who's had health problems in the 2000s with the best medical staffs, how's he going to fair in the 60s?

Ralph Sampson would have never played after his injury in Boston, if it was modern day medical staff.Back then unless you can't walk, you have to play.

I understand. Some people want him back cause they only remember the good times.

But there are people who refused to believe their were bad times and believe that in his entire career, he never played with any 'good teams'.

McGrady did play with good teams, if they weren't good, they wouldn't make the playoffs.

then you got the Matt "Cuddie" Harprings who just go on here to defend McGrady against anyone who thinks that McGrady didn't live up to their expectations.

 

It really wasn't only the media, that last year was completely just unprofessional on T-Macs part, in a way he was being very immature in things not playing out the way he wanted them to (Big three with Yao and Ron with a superb supporting cast). He handled it completely wrong and i am the last person who will argue that. The workload on NBA players nowadays is much much much tougher than it was back in those times, he would have had plenty more time to rest and recuperate. However to refuse to acknowledge that the man had unbelievable talent, perhaps top 5 in Rockets history, and to just throw away everything he did for the team in his few years of relevance is just not right to me. Who were the Rockets before McGrady? Barely an 8th seed, with McGrady and a flat out horrid supporting cast they become a 5th seed, 5th, and 4th seed in a Western conference that set records for 50 win teams. The reason they went to the playoffs wasnt because the team was good, it was due to unbelievably good coaching from JVG, MVP like seasons from TMac, and a 7'6 skilled center to anchor the defense which fit right in with JVG's frame. Can you atleast acknowledge that?

 

I think Tinman is getting soft on us. There's a little too much reasonable discussion and concessions going on here.

Also, damn, 1700 votes. That needed to be said.

 

"MVP like" seasons? I don't need to be old to see MVP seasons, we see them every year, someone wins the MVP. As for the Rockets, we got Moses Malone and Dream as MVPs, you know what they did those years? Who wants "MVP like", I want MVP.

JVG's style of coaching was effective, but it didn't work well in the playoffs, some of the worst offenses I've ever seen for the Rockets.
You can't praise JVG and say Tmac had crap teammates, those JVG teams were like that because JVG wanted them to be like that.
You notice how different Rick Adelman players were?
It's not a coincidence that JVG had a bunch of ex-Knicks on the Rockets and Rick had a bunch of ex-Kings on his Rockets.

Tmac couldn't get along with Rick, that was well documented. Rick, I have to say, did one of the best coaching jobs I've ever seen.
There's a spot in the hall of fame for Rick.

I acknowledge that Tmac brought alot of high expectations and excitement and controversy to the Rockets. However, it was extremely disappointing. I still don't know how half the population here thinks we were contenders when we weren't. Reality is that the Rockets were NO WHERE close to glory. I don't know when we'll ever be back to the finals or conference finals, but I'm not going to glorify what wasn't there.

 

Do the Tmac fans even think that he wants to come back to the Rockets?

 

Tinman, this is going to sound strange to you but I agree with this post. Tracy McGrady brought so many expectations to the Rockets when he was traded here. Heck, even after the '05 series loss we were still excited. In the end, he disappointed us. By failing to deliver a championship, or even a first round exit. By announcing surgery to the press before the organization. By picking the Lakers to win it all in 2009.

But while this left a sour taste in my mouth, I don't use that to discount the excitement he once brought. He and Yao were supposed to be the beginning of a dynasty, but the reality is that we were no where close to glory, as you said. It was McGrady's fault, true. But it was also Yao's fault. It was David Wesley's fault. It was Ryan Bowen's fault. It was the team that failed, but McGrady is singled out because of the way he left here and the expectations he arrived with. As I've said before, I don't like the guy because of what he did at the end of his tenure. But I don't hate him either, because he was an integral part of some of the best Rocket moments in the last decade. 13 in 35. The Dunk. Gamewinner vs Mavs. 22 game win streak. Don't get me wrong, I'd trade those for a Finals run in a heartbeat, and I was happy as can be when we beat Portland in '09. But the "what if" angle, at least for me, isn't so that McGrady could get that monkey off his back. It's so that the Rockets could win a championship.

Look, I can appreciate that you're a diehard Rockets fan. I'm annoyed by a lot of your antics, but we're all Rockets fans here. All I'm asking is that you stop calling anyone who sees things differently from you a TOF. That you stop going into every McGrady thread posting the same things over and over, because it does nothing but detract from this board we all love. That's really it. This has been going on for far too long, and I'd really love to get back to a state where I can go into one of your nostalgic threads and enjoy some old school basketball without seeing a passive-aggressive stab at the player that never was.

 

don't try to cover up my combination of creativity, humor, and facts as antics.

I didn't call anyone a TOF on the McGrady 13 in 35 thread.

Every McGrady thread is the same and I just want to let people know reality vs fantasy. That's all.

When people pull up Moses Malone, you have to tell them he's won 2 MVPs and took the Rockets to the Finals. Just letting people know what kind of player you are make an analogy to.

There's a huge difference between "MVP LIKE" and "REAL MVP". Like Tofu vs Steak big.

I'm just making assumptions that people who like McGrady, only a few have heard of Moses. Makes sense cause there's about a 20 year difference. You can't be a McGrady fan in the 70s and 80s, he never existed.

The only Moses they heard of split the river and lead his team of people out of the first round to freedom.

When you think he can make it in a era where there's no 3 point line, you have to tell them remind McGrady fans of... McGrady's REAL STATs, like he was #4 in the league twice for jacking up 3s.

When you say Ralph Sampson was just as injury prone as McGrady, you have to understand his injury and the medical situation in the NBA at that time.

I could care less about the insults I get from the tracy fans, or the false accusations.

Let's see, someone said I must hate Yao too, I have a secret coalition of tracy haters, I'm not a fan. tinman hates tracy's injuries. blah blah blah.
I know who I am, I was here before any tracy fan learned how to type a typo.

You got to understand if there are people who feel "sorry" for him, there are people that "don't feel sorry" for him. Tracy's always smiling, I don't see him crying a river to come back here.

 

He flipped us off. Screw him.

 

It makes me uniquely positioned to understand the nonsensical nature of them...thus the ability to call them out, like no other.



DD

 

quit on consecutive teams. we got a locker room full of younguns ... he's the ideal mentor.

bring him back already and end the Sisyphus debates.

 

Call it what you will, the majority of posters here including Rockets2K and Dr. of Dunk, and even "superstar" poster DaDakota, are tired of it.

You're making progress with the 13 in 35 thread, and as you can see, that thread hasn't devolved into every other Tracy thread...yet. Those threads become the same because you make them the same.

You realize I brought up Moses Malone BECAUSE he won 2 MVPs and took us to the Finals? I keep having to reiterate that I wasn't comparing the players, just showing a logical fallacy with an example of how it's wrong. That's just the problem. You read these posts already knowing how you want to react--outraged. So regardless of what they actually mean, you're going to post the same response about "changing history" when nobody is doing the sort.

Yes, there is a huge difference between "MVP like" and "MVP." People know this. People also know about Hakeem and Moses winning MVPs. But since then, "MVP like" is the best we got.

So yes, you are just making assumptions. Not everyone has seen every Rockets player ever, but to assume that most people haven't even heard of Moses or Hakeem? And then you say the only Moses they heard of led his team out of the first round? What are you even talking about?

And the pre-3pt line era? YOU brought it up. That's YOUR fantasy. Him not being "able to make it" in that era is not a fact. It's debatable, but you don't treat it as such and lash out at people who have a different opinion. The guy said he HIT around 2 3pt shots a game. The three seasons you listed? 2.3, 2.6, 1.8. Average? 2.23. Around 2 shots a game. No one is making anything up, and he said it only as a small part of his reply because he didn't understand why you brought it up in the first place.

You're quick to dismiss when people explain Tracy's injury history, simply berating them for coming up with excuses. But you do the same for Ralph, whom YOU also brought up. It's a double standard, but again you caused the "discussion" in the first place.

I said that you're obsessed with McGrady. And so far, no matter how much you know yourself, the evidence leans greatly in that direction.

I understand that some people feel sorry for him. I also understand that some people don't. But whether or not YOU understand that is an separate issue entirely. If you truly understood the nature of a simple difference in opinion, you shouldn't be going into threads calling people who disagree with you "TOFs" who don't know Rockets history. You can explain your views, which would lead to a civilized discussion, but what you've been doing is akin to stuffing your ears and screaming "LALALA I'M RIGHT, I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

Everyone is sick of it. I'm not asking you to stop just for my sake, it's for the sake of all of Clutchfans.

 

This thread is about Tracy McGrady. And I'm talking about Tracy McGrady.

You don't represent all of Clutchfans, you represent yourself.

I represent myself. You obviously are not tired of my views on McGrady cause you keep coming back waiting for me to say something.

Apparently you are on this for the posters not the topic, look at tcadiel. you say he's in coalition like we're Eric B and Rakim or something.

Dude, don't sweat the technique.

 

You're Moses Malone on rep points. Let us follow you to Clutch City.

 

I keep telling you that I'm tired of your antics. And yes, I am on this thread for the posters, because I'm tired of you guys and I want this to stop. I'm glad we can finally have that established instead having you repeatedly call me a Tracy defender.

If you don't want my word, take it from the rest of Clutchfans yourself:

Should I make a poll in Feedback? Will you stop then?

 

Stop what? You can make a thread, a poll, whatever you desire dude.
You can spend the entire night looking at every single reply from every single poster here. I really don't care. I know I didn't break any rules.

You can just ignore me but you keep replying so I'll kindly keep replying back at you.

my opinion is not changing because you don't like it and you don't like how I express it with stats, creativity, and spell checking.

 

Good question. I don't think he would, I think even he will admit that he burned his bridges here much worse than he should have.

 

I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm trying to stop you from turning every McGrady thread into the same stupid battle between you and "TOFs" that don't exist, because as I've shown you, people are getting sick of it.

It would be nice to be able to ignore you, as you are actually on my ignore list, but when you can't even discuss the original topic--this thread notwithstanding--because of your presence, ignoring you becomes pretty hard.

Creativity? People are able to mimic and predict your posts to a tee. See above Rockets2K post. Stats? You post the same stats that people aren't even disagreeing with. Your favorite seems to be his second round record. (Because it doesn't exist! You're so clever!) Spell check? You got me there, though there are occasional grammatical discrepancies. Doesn't matter though.

Trolling isn't technically against the rules. I know you don't care what other people think, which makes trolling easy for you, but just know that your antics degrades the quality of the forum that you should love.

 

I don't change anything dude. I just reply with my opinion and try to prove it with facts, stats, comedy, and bravado.

Every single tmac thread eh? There's that tmac in china thread that i didn't reply to. Oh damn did I break your theory that I post in every tmac thread?

Since you are hell bent on your strategy of "hey if I keep replying to tinman, he will stop posting in this thread cause his stuff is better than mine", so be it.

keep replying and since we're talking pen pal, why do you think people have this hypothetical question in their heads?

Do you think they really want Tracy back cause he can help the team or just because they miss him so?

I think it's because they miss him cause he's their basketball hero.