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Do you think Yao will stay with the Rockets once his rookie contract expires?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003.

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Do you think that Yao will extend his contact once his rookie contract ends?

  1. YES

    138 vote(s)
    60.5%

  2. NO

    90 vote(s)
    39.5%
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  1. Shrimpie

    Shrimpie Member

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    Can't believe my eyes. Half people chose "No"!. Either they are not confident with Rockets or they are not confident with Yao Ming's potential. Common sense tells me if you are confident with either one, you would choose Yes. Who are these people????


    Shrimpie
     
    #21 Shrimpie, Feb 18, 2003
  2. daoshi

    daoshi Member

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    Did any of those centers average less than 10 shots a game? I don't know if anyone can take the Rockets to anywhere with this shots distribution picture!

    ..............FGM........FGA........SPG.........PCT
    Francis...390........885.........17.4........441
    Mobley...276........648.........15.1........426
    Yao........244........464.........9.1...........526
    EG..........265........413.........8.8..........400
    Rice........101........250.........8.1..........404
    Posey.......73........183.........6.8..........399
    -------------------------------------------------
     
    #22 daoshi, Feb 18, 2003
  3. munco

    munco Member

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    I totally agree. What's up with this commitment to play all year round. The kid's played b-ball year around for the last 2 years I believe. I think that has to have hurt his effectiveness this year. Many times this year its been evident that Yao's been pretty tired and I'm sure not having a break in the past 2 years has something to do with it.

     
    #23 munco, Feb 18, 2003
  4. munco

    munco Member

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    That's flat out disturbing. Yao shoots about the same as EG and Glen Rice? And Francis shoots about twice as much? Ouch. Blame the guards, blame Yao, blame blah, blah...

    Yao's gotta take more shots that much is clear, I think it's both his fault and the guards though.

     
    #24 munco, Feb 18, 2003
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    daoshi,

    umm, Yes. Bill Russell did not average 10 spg in some of those years. And Bill Walton averaged around 13 spg in his title year.

    Shots per game will be an excuse over the next 4 yrs. Like Moses Malone said, Yao can just demand the ball and get his shots. If he continues getting Shawn Bradley spg for 4 more years without being a contender, then that's on him as much as anyone.
     
    #25 heypartner, Feb 18, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2003
  6. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    Although I agree with your logic, you did leave out a few very important variables that attributed to the success of the Centers you listed.

    Let's use Shaq as an example since it is a bit more recent. Shaq did indeed perform and carry his team BUT their were other factors that played a vital role to the teams ultimate success.

    1. Orlando management made the necessary trades/acquisitions in Horace Grant, who was a premier defensive power foward at that time that could hit the wide opened 15 footer. We have Eddie "3 point chucking" Griffen. Perhaps our management will wise up but only time will tell.

    2. Orlando had a great PG in Anfernee Hardaway that "COMPLEMENTED" Shaq extremely well and is regarded as a very good passer. We have Steve Francis who is inarguably a shoot first PG.

    3. Orlando had a outstanding group of ROLE PLAYERS. Snipers like Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson. Defensive specialists like Horace Grant and Donald Royal etc. We currently have NO true role players and we lack consistant outside shooters.

    Conclusion, IF and thats a BIG IF, the 3 factors that I listed above are met and we do not contend, THEN we have a major problem with Yao. But until this is met, it is an UNFAIR comparison.

    Lastly, for those that criticize Yao this year for NOT DEMANDING THE BALL completely bewilders me. Yao is a ROOKIE whos been here 4 months. It is NOT HIS JOB to demand the ball when he is opened. The COACH should instruct his team mates to get him the ball or his team mates should do so by themselves. Personally, I think those that criticize Yao for not DEMANDING THE BALL now as having "mad cow disease" because they are asking too much. Yao can not play PG, Yao can not stop Shaq, and Yao being a rookie from a different country and speaks below average English CAN NOT DEMAND THE BALL now.
     
    #26 hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    hikanoo49,

    Dude, I just named 12 centers from history who were all contenders in 4 yrs, which I would consider either winning your division or making it to the finals, and you imply Shaq would not be able to make this Rockets team a contender in his first 4yrs? Quit using this year as an excuse. If Yao Ming does not rise up and dominate and turn his young team into a contender in his first 4yrs, everyone in the NBA will be questioning Yao Ming's greatness right alongside Steve Francis. That is the truth. History proves it.

    Show me an NBA center (much less a 7' center) who didn't win a division title or make it to the finals by age 25, and I'll show you someone's career that you expect Yao Ming to surpass.

    btw: where did I ever say Yao should demand the ball this year. You started a futuristic thread, right? Quit bringing it back to this year then, and look 4 yrs down the road like you asked us to do.
     
    #27 heypartner, Feb 18, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2003
  8. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    My point again is that Yao will make us a contender WITHIN the next 4 years IF the 3 following agendas were met.

    1. Real PF
    2. Passing PG
    3. Role Players

    These 3 things go hand in hand in becoming a winning team. As I had illustrated earlier, all the centers you listed to my knowledge HAD these things. We currently do not.

    We are debating over the chicken or the egg. My point is that ALL OF THE ABOVE must be met to become a championship team.
     
    #28 hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003
  9. daoshi

    daoshi Member

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    HP,

    I'm not old enough to watch Russell's games, so my statement might be wrong here, but I believe he was a monster on defense, his offense is just average. So his situation is unique. Walton might not shot that much, but I believe he was the focus of their offense. Ramsey had his offense through Walton in that year.

    The Rockets would be in trouble if they expect Yao to demand the ball like Moses Malone suggested. Yao was not brought up that way. He might complain a bit to his friends, but never in public. That's just not HIM.
     
    #29 daoshi, Feb 18, 2003
  10. daniel-bfl

    daniel-bfl Member

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    A four year contract is really long for a big man. A third world war can be started and finished during such a long span.
     
    #30 daniel-bfl, Feb 18, 2003
  11. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    Hey partner,

    Also, let me comment on your quote..

    "There is no such thing as a 7' center being great and not being on a contender in 4yrs. No such thing!"


    I agree with this 100%. A great center is a huge advantage in the league. Your statement implies GREAT CENTER=CONTENDER. Which is somewhat true but I think it rests on management and coaching a bit too.

    When a coach has a great center, he exploits that advantage which ultimately results to becoming a contender. Management would also add the surrounding pieces (role players) as well.

    I respect your opinion and your posts are great. But before we continue this debate, just realize that the fundmental argument we have is this..

    If Yao is great, Rox will win (YOUR OPINION)

    For Yao to be great, we need good coaching/pgroleplayers and THEN we will win. (MY OPINION)

    So essentially, we are saying the same thing except what is needed first. And this debate has no clear solutions so lets stay away from this chicken or egg argument.
     
    #31 hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2003
  12. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    This is your quote from earlier today.. I misunderstood and thought you were referring to this year as many others on this board.

    "Shots per game will be an excuse over the next 4 yrs. Like Moses Malone said, Yao can just demand the ball and get his shots. If he continues getting Shawn Bradley spg for 4 more years without being a contender, then that's on him as much as anyone. "
     
    #32 hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003
  13. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Unity cant be obtained with some players playing Small ball and the others playing Big ball. Its either Guards or Big men to dominate. I put my money on the BIG Game.
     
    #33 Yetti, Feb 18, 2003
  14. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    You didn't say "championship team" in your opening post. You said "contender." I would have agreed with you more had you said "Championship Team." But then, Yao Ming wouldn't be a threat to leave had we been a contender, but just short of a ring. Right?

    Your criteria for a championship team does not need to be met to become a "contender." All those HOF centers I mentioned would have been contenders with lessor players, just like a 22-25 yr old Shaq would be a contender with this Rockets team.

    <blockquote><hr>As I had illustrated earlier, all the centers you listed to my knowledge HAD these things. We currently do not. <hr></blockquote>
    I thought that you merely illustrated Orlando. David Robinson did not have a "true PF" for 5yrs until they got Rodman. And what?, you are going to call a 41% shooting 20ppg Tim Hardaway a prototype "passing PG" who helped Mourning win 61 games. Sixty One Games!

    As for role players, all you are seeing in NBA History is that dominating centers get remembered as having role players, because they make the role players. The role players do not make them.

    <b>daoshi</b>

    Walton ran that offense from the high post, to a great extent. Yao doesn't show that type of game, yet. You can only teach that so much. Walton was the best passing center ever. Right now, imo, Yao is about equal to Jabbar's passing. Doc Ramsey picked that high post offense, because Walton had proven he could run it before in college. Ramsey had to teach the rest of the team, not Walton. And Yao would definitely need to be taught that.
     
    #34 heypartner, Feb 18, 2003
  15. franchise?..NOT

    franchise?..NOT Member

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    Unless his stock drops or he sandbags to the point where he isn't worth a max, (if that's what he wants) then the Rox would be nuts to let him go unless they got all the rest of the the top talent in the league in trade.
     
    #35 franchise?..NOT, Feb 18, 2003
  16. kwik_e_mart

    kwik_e_mart Member

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    without any doubt he will stay...
    he's the money making machine for the Rockets and the rest of the NBA
     
    #36 kwik_e_mart, Feb 18, 2003
  17. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    1. When I say contender, I mean contend for the championship. Not contend for the playoffs. More specifically, a legitimate shot at winning the championship.

    2. Your statement that we would be a contender if we had a 22 year old Shaq instead of Yao is arguable given that Shaq was not able to pass out of the double team at that time but more importantly, he cant put up those #s if Steve and Cat dont get him the ball. But I will leave this one alone.

    3. David Robinson- I am not sure who his PF was when he came in the league. Cadallac Anderson? But whoever it was, I would go out on a limb to say that they played more of a traditional PF type role (defense, rebound, interior game) than our 20 year old, 200 pound weighing, 3 pt chucking Eddie Griffen. I dont have a list of all of them but I would bet that the vast majority of the great centers you listed had a good PF along side them. David Robinson may have been the exception.

    4. Tim Hardaway- Although he shot alot, he was still more of a PG than Stevie. Again, the vast majority of the centers you listed had a passing PG. If you REALLY INSIST, we can go through it. Hardaway was the exception but he still had more assists than Stevie and moved the ball better.

    5. Roll players- I agree with your statement. But then again, we are debating about the chicken or the egg. But I am not even talking about skill level. Just the willingness to do the grunt work. Pass the ball, set screens, garbage points, tough defense, move with out the ball etc. Guys like Horry, Fox, Fisher are awesome at that. That is what I am referring to. When Eddie doesnt have the ball, he stands out and camps out at the 3 point line instead of cutting to the hole.
     
    #37 hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003
  18. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    But will he want to stay?

    He may get more marketing $'s if he was in LA or New York. What if Shaq retires and Lakers go after him? Yao and Kobe may mean a championship ring for him. one already.
     
    #38 hikanoo49, Feb 18, 2003
  19. gotoloveit2

    gotoloveit2 Member

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    NO, a BIG NO because of all the covert Yao haters in this BBS. He prefers to go to teams, where their fans dont mind being infested with Mad Yao Disease.
     
    #39 gotoloveit2, Feb 18, 2003
  20. daoshi

    daoshi Member

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    The original argument was that there is no way for any of those centers (maybe except Russell) to lead the Rockets anywhere if they keep the shots distribution I listed (<10). You gave the Walton example when he had 13 shots in his title season. My point was that Walton was the focus of their offense, he didn't take that many shots, but ball had to go through his most of the time. The Rockets & Yao are a different story here.

    I'm not saying that Yao is ready to direct the offense from the high-post as Walton did, but he has demonstrated that he can be the focus of the offense in the other ways. They just need time to develop him & his teamates into their respective roles. That's why I don't blame Rudy T or any players for their up & downs this season.
     
    #40 daoshi, Feb 18, 2003
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