Do you think Yao deserves to be in the hall of fame based on basketball merits?

Plus, man, introduce yourself to linguistic nuances - like the single quotes around classy in my original post.

 

They answered your question. The only way they see Yao in the HOF is for reasons other than on-the-court production. That's why they can't help bringing it up.

 

Simple Definition of classy
: showing impressive character : very good, kind, etc.

In fact, classiness or lack thereof doesn't have anything to do with being poor. I'm sure both Yao and Iverson are classy guys. Dirk also seems like a super classy guy. Someone like Harden doesn't seem classy at all. And it's not because he's black. Come on now, son.

 

Are you guys idiots??? Did you not read my post??? I said 'classy'. That means that is not my take but others'.

I think you all need to re-read my post a few times.

I will add this. Ppl look at how an Iverson carries himself and how a Curry carries himself, and they conclude Curry is classy - not me saying it. I was pointing out that it is easy to be nice & articulate like Curry when you grew up privileged unlike ppl who had to fight their way up like Iverson.

Just so you don't misinterpret yet again, that is a point that is championing Iverson.

 

IMHO, many in the NBA, primarily of African American descent, have complained about Yao since the day he got in the league, calling him soft etc, and now most of the people questioning his inclusion are the same ones that were complaining about him then.

Racial bias is against Yao, big time, IMHO.

And the Hall of Fame is for BASKETBALL - not just the NBA - Yao deserves to be there, his time in the CBA counts, as well as his international play.

DD

 

I don't think it's possible to separate Yao's on court production and the off court stuff. The fact is he had to deal with a level of pressure and attention that few players have ever gone through and that impacts your play on the court. The national team commitments that he was forced into even though he put a good face on it. I don't think there are a lot of people who could perform like he did under those circumstances.

Statistically, his career is similar to Brad Daugherty though Yao had a higher peak than Daugherty. Of course Daugherty played in Cleveland while Yao had a lot of built in notoriety and fan support so the media plays a role in how the players are perceived. I don't think Daugherty is going to get in the Hall of Fame but again Daugherty didn't go through the things Yao had to deal with and perform.

 

I don't want to speak about Yao's situation because I don't know, but here in Lithuania, when it was still Soviet Union, promising athletes had pretty great conditions. Access to top medical and training staff, best food and supplements, free vacations to top resorts, no worries, just train hard, eat great food, sleep, repeat.

Which is why Soviet 'amateur' youth and grown up athletes often had fantastic results compared to real amateurs from Western countries.

From what I read, China's athletes development system is still practically carbon copy of the Soviet one, so I wouldn't be suprised if conditions were similar.

Average person being poor doesn't mean that everyone (for example communist party officials or athletes) live poorly.

Besides, 'poor' is relative. My mom used to make equivalent of around 100 dollars a month around the time when USSR collapsed, her salary was middle of the pack I guess. Compared to the US, it might've seemed below poverty threshold, but it wasn't, everything was cheap, a lot of things were free (education, healthcare, flats or houses; transport, water, electricity and gas were very cheap). Which is why many people became millionaires and billionaires once borders opened up and they started buying practically anything locally and then selling it in Western countries at much higher prices.

 

So, what exactly is your point? Yes, there were poorer people than Yao in communist China, despite the fact that Yao still had less than your average "poor" person in the US. Yes, Yao had two parents growing up. Based on this, am I supposed to think lesser of Yao's actions as a human being? Is he any less "classy" because of this?

 

of course.

 

I don't know how voters add up various achievements, but I personally would expect a Hall of Famer to have great achievements in at least one field -- NBA, or internationally, or college. If you are B in the NBA, B internationally, B in college, I wouldn't add it up to an A overall.

To use a player example, Grant Hill had pretty good achievements in all those areas, but not elite in any. Good career in the NBA, superstar for half a decade, very good college career, and he was part of the legendary 1996 dream team, where he had a big role. But does it all add up and make him a certain hall of famer? I think he's borderline, because his career didn't stand out enough on any one stage.

I think it's similar with Yao, borderline achievements for HOF, but his place in basketball's history pushes him inside.

 

Yep, unfortunately, very true. Same as young Sabonis being forced to play through a knee issues for political reasons. It affects the career and probably should give some 'points' in a Hall of Fame case.

 

I was born in communist China, and spent the first few years of my life in Shanghai, where Yao is from. In fact, my father used to watch Yao's dad play ball, as we were all military families. Conditions in China back then wasn't like what you described in Lithuania. Promising athletes were paid a modest wage by the Party, and food was provided for (food was provided for most native city dwellers.) They didn't get better food, or any of the creature comforts that you listed. Resorts were not even a thing that was known back then, unless you were in the upper echelon of the Politburo. In fact, I remember watching Yao's documentary and they showed his home in Shanghai, and it looked exactly like what my grandparents had. We all had the same bed, mattress, sheets, pillows. But then again, isn't that the point of communism?

 

My point is this: the average Joe interprets clean cut as classy. The average Joe prefers 'classy'. Therefore, the average Joe is biased for a Yao Ming and against an Allen Iverson.

Are you saying Yao had less growing up than Iverson? I don't know for a fact either way, but I doubt it. I know Iverson was raised by a single mother with perhaps questionable commitment to her responsibilities (from the little I have heard). When thinking of Yao's upbringing, you need to consider a couple things: 1) A dollar from here goes WAY farther over there. 2) Communist countries take care of their athletes. Communist countries view sports as like a marketing deal for their countries.

 

So, VSpan is a HOF'er? That guy was great in Greece.

The complaints about Yao were more about being 7'5 and occasionally getting blocked by a guard with a good vertical and wing span. No one roots for the giant. Having half a foot on everybody, you expect him to be more dominant. He only averaged 9 RPG. Shawn Bradley caught the same criticism. People want to be the one to dunk on the giant.

Like I said though, Yao wouldn't even be considered for the HOF if it's not for these non-basketball reasons. I have never seen a so-called star/superstar completely eliminated from the offensive gameplan the way he would be when he got fronted. He was a terrible PnR defender - that's not a strike on his character. That's just a fact. And he couldn't guard a stretch big. The only reason he could be so dominant in the regular season is teams don't game plan in the regular season. You saw it in all his playoff series. A couple great games & then gets figure out.

 

The HOF is a lot easier to get into for a professional basketball player than it is for the other major sports in this country. So, he 'deserves' to get in, based on that fact.

 

Arvydas Sabonis is in there, right? Look, most of the criticism is because he is Chinese - Jalen Rose is a noted racist, even called guys that went to Duke Uncle Toms - For whatever reason that culture has always painted Yao and to some extent Lin as inferior....

Yao was an AMAZING basketball talent, who had to retire too early, and he was NOT soft by any stretch he KILLED Dwight Howard every time he played him, he and Shaq were about equal when facing each other.

Yao, is getting backlash because he is not american, or African American.

DD

 

let the truth be told, however unpretty the truth is.

 

again, "on court production"? which court? i think you meant nba court only, eh?

it's not the nba hall of fame, you do realize that, yes?