Do you think the Rockets would have won both of them championships if MJ never left?

obvious corrections

 

obvious, that you forgot the pre-Maxwell Rockets crushing the bulls like grapes.


Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Date: FRI 02/02/1990
Section: Sports
Page: 1
Edition: 2 STAR

Rockets crush Bulls 139-112/Chicago's newfound unity fades into thin Air Jordan

 

Without a doubt, the Rockets' 2nd Championship came just as the team was on an all-time-great peak, on of the very best peaking runs in major sports history.

Rockets win that year easily, against the Bulls or the Magic or anyone else, nobody was beating the Rockets that year.

The year before is less certain, because the Rockets were less dominant, and had to fight tooth and nail against the Knicks. The Knicks had somewhat of an an answer to Olajuwon, but the Bulls never did.

There was only one team during the Bulls' runs that they were ever afraid of facing in the playoffs, and that was the Rockets. And if not for some heartbreaking playoff performances by Houston during that time, we would have found out.

I will still never fully forgive Max for taking that stupid off-balance jumper against Seattle when Otis was standing directly under the basket, totally alone, unguarded, ready for an easy game-winning dunk.

And don't even get me started about that bear hug...

 

The Rockets would have beaten the Bulls both years. The 1st year, Mad Max would have slowed MJ down a bit and the Bulls just didn't have anyone who could put a dent in Dream's game. Nero just mentioned that the 2nd year Rockets peaked during the playoffs & noone could beat them in a 7 game series.

 

I have had this discussion numerous times but an old Chronicle article touches on it pretty well....

From the 10 year anniversary edition
---------------------------------------------------------------
...
The critics contend that those championship banners would not be flying in Houston and the Chicago Bulls might have won eight titles in a row.

The Rockets themselves would have loved to have proven everybody wrong.
"There should be no doubt or label of fluke on our championships," said Hakeem Olajuwon. "As for Michael Jordan, a lot of people don't know and never looked up our matchups with Chicago during that time. If you check the records, you'll see that we beat them on a consistent basis when Michael was playing and winning his first three championships.

"(Vernon) Maxwell guarded Michael and gave him problems. In '95, we would have had Mario Elie on him. They didn't have anyone who could contain me. Chicago was never a problem for us. We always looked forward to playing them. A lot of people don't realize that."

The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

Head coach Rudy Tomjanovich is philosophical.
"It's one of those things, a good sports debate," he said. "But we don't have to apologize to anybody. I've actually talked to Michael about that topic several times. He's always told me he thought those would have been some helluva playoff series."

Elie is defiant.
"That's the one thing that still sticks with me and bothers me, not getting to play Chicago in the Finals," he said. "Hey, it's not our fault that Jordan wasn't there. We're not the ones who told him to go try baseball.

"We had a team that lined up against anybody and could beat anybody out there. I always wanted the challenge of going against 'the greatest' in the Finals. If there's a gap, that's it. That we didn't get to play them. But there's nobody that can tell me we couldn't play with them.

"Hey, that's my biggest regret about that John Stockton shot that went in for Utah in '97. I was ready to play Chicago that year. With Dream, Clyde (Drexler) and Charles (Barkley), we'd have beaten them then, too."

 

The reason I say they would cancel each other out is because they each had one all star season, and were both good defenders and great rebounders. Thorpe was a better finisher around the basket where as Grant was a better mid range shooter. Thorpe was also a better passer. So now, I guess I would have to say that Thorpe would've had the advantage over Grant.

I don't have nothing against Kenny Smith, but I believe Armstrong may have had an all star season (1994), but I may be wrong and the coaches may have been wrong about that as well, if that was true. But, he did the same thing Kenny Smith did, which was shoot 3's and get it to their best player in the half court. I honestly think they might cancel each other out, but I didn't get to see Kenny play much before 94 and I don't know how good Armstrong really was.

 

BJ Armstrong was a phenomenal 3 pt shooter, one of the best shooters to ever play arguably...At their peak Kenny Smith was a little better I think.

Armstrong being an All-Star was almost a joke. People were trying waaay too hard to have a rooting interest in the Bulls again after Jordan left. Everyone wanted little babyface BJ to get recognized for the previous years contributions to the championships. He probably deserved it, but Kenny Smith on the Bulls would have been an All Star by the same measure...

 

I would say one and one, mainly because of my respect to Jordan, and to say more, i was between that and None.

Jordan is such a great player that nothing couldn't be taken for granted against him.

 

I think the Rockets win in 94 and 95 vs. the Bulls with Jordan. Hakeem was playing at a level where he couldn't be stopped. I mean, he won the MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, and NBA Finals MVP in 94, and he played EVEN better in the 95 playoffs!!! I just dont see the Rockets getting beat by any team, except maybe the Sonics, because that was just one of those matchups, kind of like the current Rockets with the Hornets, we just cant beat them because of matchups.

With that being said, I do believe that the Bulls with Rodman, Harper, and Kerr with Jordan, Pippen, and Kukoc would've easily beaten the Rockets. Whether it was the 96 team, which was the last time we saw a similar version of the championship teams, or with a much older team with Barkley and Willis.

By 96, Hakeem was still 2nd in the league in scoring only to Jordan, but he couldn't play at that high level he played at from 93-95. He naturally became a little injury prone, and had other health issues, not related to basketball. Drexler was already 33 years old, and just about past his prime, and missed a pretty good amount of games as well due to injuries. Without those 2 guys playing at a high level, there's no way they could beat the 96 Bulls with Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman playing out of their minds that season.

Kenny Smith was benched for Eldridge Recasner...enough said. Horry started to bulk up a little, and lost some athletic ability to be able to play the SF as effectively, but was still a good defender and shot the 3 very well. Mario Elie finally became a solidified starter and didn't disappoint, but he had a nasty wrist injury and he missed a bunch of games as well. Chucky Brown was their version of Chuck Hayes...enough said. The only person who really improved their game was Sam Cassell, because he was still young. The rest of the team was basically from the CBA ( Recasner, Sam Mack, Tracy Moore, Tim Breaux), or old big men (Mark Bryant, Charles Jones)

Now that Rockets supporting cast vs. the 96 Bulls supporting cast would have no chance.

Ron Harper, who was a good, big defender, especially on point guards, Toni Kukoc, who excelled that season in shooting the 3 and making plays, Rodman, who played like a beast and even gave Shaq fits in the post, Luc Longley who was a good passer out of the high post and could hit the mid range jumper, and Steve Kerr who had one of the best shooting seasons in the history of the NBA, plus other proven veterans like Robert Parish, James Edwards, John Salley and servicable players like Wennington, Bucheler, Randy Brown, and Jason Caffey.

I think Hakeem still would've done well vs. the Bulls and Drexler as well, but Jordan and Pippen were on another planet that year. Bulls win in 6 games in the 96 Finals vs. the Rockets

 

This thread is effin' clown shoes. It's like asking "do you think the Rockets would have won the championship if Hakeem Olajuwon's heart exploded in college" or something like that.

... and probably not.

 

1/19/1997:
Points - 32
Rebounds - 16
Blocks - 5
Steals - 4
Assists - 4

WITHOUT WATER

Anyway, I agree that the 96 Bulls had a superior team (on paper), but then again, so did the Jazz, Suns, Spurs and Magic the year before. You just could not count those guys out (unless you were Seattle).

But I think the 1997 Rockets would have been able to defeat them. Not only did you have Hakeem on the inside just eating up whoever tried to guard, you had a focused Barkley to, at the very least, neutralize Rodman on rebounding, if not get the better of him. Drexler cancels out Pippen, and Jordan still gets his 40-50, but at least he has to work a little for them with Elie on him.

It would be interesting to see whether or not Jackson would let Olajuwon, Barkley, and Willis destroy them inside or take a chance on Matt Maloney or Eddie Johnson dropping bombs on them.

 

i think the only people who still care about this are rockets fans.

no one questions our two rings anymore. no one cares!

let's just enjoy them geez.

 

Haven't we covered this subject numerous times in the past.......ad nauseum.

BTW..yes, we would have...

 

I didn't mean to say that Hakeem could no longer have big games, but it was just harder for him to have as consistantly as he did from 93-95. He was an unbelievable talent and athlete, and the bar was set too high for him. He wouldn't have been able to carry a team with just Clyde anymore and a shaky and aging supporting cast. Thats why the Barkley trade did work out for one year. The Rockets did what Boston is doing right now. Getting experience and proven talent to win a title, rather than develop for the future. For one year, I say it wasn't bad, 57-25 and lost in game 6 of the WCF. But The next couple of years, The Big 3 were too old, and Pippen couldn't fit in.

I honestly don't think the Rockets could beat them in 97, because of the point guard play. Ron Harper could pressure Maloney all game long, and he would definetily commit numerous turnovers. Sedale Threatt was okay, but he was old as well. Barkley and Kevin Willis would definetily outmatch Rodman over a 7 game series, and Hakeem would have his way with the Bulls centers, but there is no way Mario Elie in 97 could soley guard Michael Jordan for 40 mpg and be effective. Drexler's defense had gotten even worse by 97, so that wouldn't be a good option. Plus Pippen was playing pretty good in 97 and was a few years younger than Clyde, (although he started to show some deterioration of his game in 98), so he would probably produce a little more during a series. All in all, the lack of athletecism and age would catch up to the Rockets in 97, but it would've been really fun to see that matchup. I know everybody in Chicago wanted to see us instead of Utah, just because of the entertainment value.

 

Excuses that's all I hear. If the Rockets would have beat the Sonics and Jazz they could have played the bulls 2 times in the finals.

 

If the Bulls, with Jordan, had beaten the Magic the year before...

The Rockets would've swept them, too.

See? Plenty of chances for MJ that year to be owned by DREAM.

 

dude imagine if you actually were a real basketball fan back in the day, you wouldn't forget that Jordan played in the 80s and 90s.

 

Will this argument ever go away?

We got two rings. Does anyone REALLY care how they happened and who was around?

 

The fake fans do care. Cause they aren't Rocket fans.

 

Nobody determines whether I'm a fan. I make that choice and I'm die heart fan. We're just in disagreement on who wouldn't won the championship. If I think a team is better I'm going say it. Right now I don't think the Rockets will get out the first round. I came to that opionion based on what I see. If they improve from now until playoffs I'll voiced my opionion on that.
I'm the type of fan that voice my opionion by what I see. I'm not in the hoping department.