Do You think Gov't Entities Like Schools should be Named after Confederates?

lol -

that's actually a myth perpetrated by the North. From what I heard - his wife threw a shawl on him as he was fleeing. He was not wearing a dress or miniskirt or high heels, etc.

 

You have a good point here. But I think to lump all Confederates into the same category is probably a bit too simplistic.

For example, someone like Robert E Lee (my fake id name at age 16) whose integrity (and anti-slavery views) was admired and respected by virtually everyone is a lot different than someone like Nathan Bedford Forrest who started the KKK.

A Robert E Lee High school in Northern Virginia? That's definitely okay by my book. But a Nathan Bedford Forrest Elementary? That would be offensive.

It is true than no slavery = no secession. In the end, slavery was probably the most distinguishing and divisive cultural element between the North and the South. However - many Southern "heroes" and soldiers (Lee is one of them), did not fight the North the protect slavery - rather they fought because the South was being invaded.

Interesting enough - there were proposals made by Southern politicians to emancipate the slaves as early as 1862. In a sense, these politicians wanted to c***-block the Emancipation Proclamation. If such a measure did pass - English and French recognition would have been virtually guaranteed.

 

I really don't care about the schools already named after historical figures from the South and the Civil War era. A new school? I would hope that we have newer heroes and important historical figures from more recent times to name them after. Consider this... those old schools were named in a different era, and not, in my opinion, because those naming them, in the main, wanted to slam Blacks or Yankees, but because it was a common thing to do during those times.

They had a host of other ways and means to discriminate against Blacks, to make their life miserable, to deny them equal opportunity, and on and on. I still remember Blacks riding in the back of the bus, while my grandmother and I road in the empty seats that always seemed to exist in the front. (fancy that) I still remember when restrooms had "Whites Only" signs on them, as did water fountains, at public parks in Houston. Like Reveille Park, my neighborhood park in our working class neighborhood of small homes built for returning vets, like my father, and purchased because of the GI Bill, that was and is in Southeast Houston. I remember Blacks not being allowed to use the swimming pool at Reveille Park while it was being used by Whites.

My mother graduated from Jeff Davis High School in Houston, as did my father. Both were (Dad) and are (Mom) progressive Democrats. Didn't seem to harm them any. Of course, it was segregated at the time. Didn't matter to my parents. My parents believed in equal rights for all. It was something they lived, and pounded into the dense heads of my sister and I. My father actively worked to give every advantage the system allowed to Blacks and other minorities who went to his college at a large Houston university, where he was a department chair for 30 years. The name of the high school where they met, was just a name, nothing more.

New schools? No. Old schools? Who cares. If the people living in the area that attend the school think it is offensive, they should petition the school district to have it changed, and they should be listened to. In my opinion.



D&D. Impeach Wimpy and Poser.

 

Slavery was constitutionaly protected and the word slave or slavery was mentioned 12 different times in the Confederate Constitution. There may have been people talking about it. There were people talking about womens sufferage in the United States as early as the 1820's. But I think to imply that there was any real chance of it happening is, as best I can tell, simply wrong.

 

DaDakota...defender of free speech? Liberals justifying invading a foreign country? It is wierd that i agree with both.

 

Yeah you're definitely right about that. I didn't really mean to imply that such measures could have passed - merely that some more "forward-thinking" legislators (a miniscule minority at that), did place victory and independence ahead of slavery. Southern emancipation measures never really had any chance of passing.

I know that they did train some slave-soldier regiments in 1865 when the end was near. Not sure if they guaranteed freedom to such soldiers.

The South never accepted the idea of emancipation - even to guarantee victory. I think the feeling was then "wth are we even fighting for then ?!?". Outside of slavery, the cultural similarities between the 2 sections was far greater than their differences.

 

I can understand the distaste for Confederate-linked names and symbols. At the same time, I can understand the Southerner balking at being asked to deny his heritage. Guys like Davis and Lee are part of the South's identity. Perhaps naming public institutions after them is not the best way to recognize that. But, it is a very delicate situation because these names were slapped on in a show of defiance and are now objected to in a show of counter-defiance. I think little respect or sensitivity is shown by either side of the issue.

Naming things after people usually opens a can of worms. I'm not too happy with Reagan either, and he has a ton of stuff named after him. The worst is when they name things after people who are still alive. How do you know they won't embarass you later? I think we name far too many things in the first place. Houston Intercontinental Airport was doing just fine without a political affiliation.

 

I would definitely agree it is risky to name things after people or energy companies. Very few people are liked by all.

 

Excellent post Deckard. I also grew up in southeast Houston in one of those same GI Bill neighborhoods off of South Park (MLK) and Bellfort.

 

I would defintely agree that the people in the area should be able to have the school called whatever they want. I would also say that changing a name can be as offensive to some as the name is to others.

It is a very sensitive issue.

 

Life is a sensitive issue, slavery was over 140 years ago....no one alive today owned slaves, or was a slave.

The issue of naming public schools after civil war veterans, is offensive to some - understandable, and a non issue for most - understandable.

DD

 

Do you know of any schools that are being named for him now? Is this a major problem, anywhere?

DD

 

Jeff Davis Bio - not bad for a man who was only known for being the President of the Confederacy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Second military career
The year 1846 saw the beginning of the Mexican-American War. He resigned his House seat in June, and raised a volunteer regiment, the Mississippi Rifles, becoming its colonel. On July 21, 1846 they sailed from New Orleans for the Texas coast. Davis armed the regiment with percussion rifles and trained the regiment in their use, making it particularly effective in combat.

In September of the same year, he participated in the successful siege of Monterrey, Mexico. He fought bravely at the Battle of Buena Vista on February 22, 1847, and was shot in the foot. In recognition of his bravery and initiative, commanding general Zachary Taylor is reputed to have said, "My daughter, sir, was a better judge of men than I was."[3]

President James K. Polk offered him a Federal commission as a brigadier general and command of a brigade of militia. He declined the appointment, arguing that the United States Constitution gives the power of appointing militia officers to the states, and not to the Federal government.


[edit] Return to politics

[edit] Senator
Because of his war service, the Governor of Mississippi appointed Davis to fill out the Senate term of the late Jesse Speight. He took his seat 5 December 1847, and was elected to serve the remainder of his term in January 1848. In addition, the Smithsonian Institution appointed him a regent at the end of December 1847.


Portrait of Jefferson Davis by Daniel Huntington.The Senate made Davis chairman of the Committee on Military Affairs. When his term expired, he was elected to the same seat (by the Mississippi legislature, as the Constitution mandated at the time). He had not served a year when he resigned (in September 1851) to run for the Governorship of Mississippi on the issue of the Compromise of 1850, which Davis opposed. This election bid was unsuccessful, as he was defeated by fellow senator Henry Stuart Foote by 999 votes.

Left without political office, Davis continued his political activity. He took part in a convention on states' rights, held at Jackson, Mississippi in January 1852. In the weeks leading up to the presidential election of 1852, he campaigned in numerous Southern states for Democratic candidates Franklin Pierce and William R. King.


[edit] Secretary of War
Pierce won the election and, in 1853, made Davis his Secretary of War.[5] In this capacity, Davis gave to Congress four annual reports (in December of each year), as well as an elaborate one (submitted on February 22, 1855) on various routes for the proposed Transcontinental Railroad. The Pierce Administration ended in 1857. The President lost the Democratic nomination, which went instead to James Buchanan. Davis's term was to end with Pierce's, so he ran successfully for the Senate, and re-entered it on March 4, 1857.


[edit] Return to Senate
His renewed service in the Senate was interrupted by an illness that threatened him with the loss of his left eye. Still nominally serving in the Senate, Davis spent the summer of 1858 in Portland, Maine. On the Fourth of July, he delivered an anti-secessionist speech on board a ship near Boston. He again urged the preservation of the Union on October 11 in Faneuil Hall, Boston, and returned to the Senate soon after.

On February 2, 1860, as secessionist clamor in the South grew ever louder, Davis submitted six resolutions in an attempt to consolidate opinion regarding states' rights, including the right to maintain slavery in the South, and to further his own position on the issue. Abraham Lincoln won the presidency that November. Matters came to a head, and South Carolina seceded from the Union.

Though an opponent of secession in principle, Davis upheld it in practice on January 10, 1861. On January 21, 1861, he announced the secession of Mississippi, delivered a farewell address, and resigned from the Senate.

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Seems like he did a fair amount, but you could have looked this up yourself.

DD

 

Oh come on, there are several people you would have to look up to find out why schools are named for them.

But you asked if Govt entities should be named after confederates. I think the answer is yes...on some, no one others.

If their only notoriety is about the civil war, than no.......but if they were accomplished men prior to or after the war, than yes.

DD

 

Many of the people who fought for the South did not want to fight for the South or fight at all. Robert E. Lee is a prime example, he wanted to fight for the North until Virginia seceded.

I really don't care either way though.

 

Nevermind

 

I would be curious to find out when all these schools were named after Lee, Davis, etc.

My initial guess would be sometime around Brown v. Board of Education.