Do you think Biggio should retire after this year?

I'd feel better about the 3 in 22 if 2 hadn't come late in a huge rout.

I have no feel for this guy's future (unlike Porter who has no future).

 

That .273 batting average sure is impressive. Especially combined with his .273 OBP.

I'll take a Houston sports legend's .263 and .351 OBP over your gut feeling.

 

Or maybe we should look at Lane's career BA and OBP.

.286 avg .353 OBP.

And that is only going to get better whilst Biggio is getting worse.

DD

 

Yes...He is only here to retire, but his good days are behind him...

He isn't Mendoza line, but damn near close...Not what you need in a lead off man...

 

He's 63 points above the Mendoza line. He's got a .350 OBP. He's better than half (if not more) than the lead off men in the league. He's hit 44 doubles this year.

He's not as good as he once was, but he's not as bad as everyone tries to make him out to be.

 

To bad that couldn't translate to clutch hitting in the playoffs. You can't call biggio clutch because he gets clutch hits in the regular season against teams with scrub pitchers. Bernie Williams is clutch, Chipper Jones is clutch. Edgardo Alfonso is clutch. Ken Caminiti is clutch. Luis Gonzalez is clutch.

These numbers are misleading. I mean, A clutch effort in June is completely different than a clutch effort when the season is on the line or in the playoffs.

In order to be considered a clutch peformer, one has to get big hits in the playoffs as well. Biggio has none.

Youre a solid poster Madmax, but if you think Biggio is a clutch performer, you are wrong.

Although I will say this. I hope the Astros make the playoffs and if they do I hope Biggio turns it around and shuts me up.

 

now you're talking about the playoffs...

1. in baseball, i'm much more concerned with how a player performs over 162 games in a season than i am the 15 or so ab's he'll get in any playoff series.

2. ted williams was clutch...but he never performed in the playoffs. barry bonds is clutch...but he never performed in the playoffs...you can have jim leyritz and chipper jones...i'll take guys like biggio, bonds and williams and take my chances that eventually they'll perform more in those limited ab's like they do over the 162 game season that precedes them.

3. Biggio is NOT over rated...not at all. If anything he's underrated in an era where players are judged almost soley by power numbers....stack Biggio up against other second basemen all time and see where he compares. don't compare him to leftfielders...he was never a leftfielder...compare him to historical second basemen and those of his own era. that's how you judge his worth. he's not overrated....

 

You are aware that Cruz is only hitting .250 with 19 HRs and 65 RBI? He also has struck out 119 times. His OBP and slugging percentage are just a tad bit higher than Biggios. Since the all star game, Cruz has 3 HRs , 18 RBI and is hitting .232.

Biggio already had a contract for this year so his salary is moot.

Incidentally, the "clutch" Jose Cruz is hitting .184 with runners in scoring position this year and .183 with runners in scoring position and 2 outs.

 

this is exactly my point...people spout off about biggio...but the substitutes don't represent an improvement.

 

Barry shedded that label last year, He had a great playoff last year.

we already had the disagreement about whether Biggio was overrated or not. I dont want to start that again. This is referring to his big-hit ability, to which he has none.

Except that these substitutes give us fans a glimmer of hope when the Astros need to get a big clutch hit, where as Biggio, for certain, will fail.

I'd love to eat crow on the last part of that above sentence I posted.

 

Max,

How do you know the substitutes aren't better, if Jimy keeps running an over the hill, no wheels, no arm, Biggio?

DD

 

1. Barry's playoff averages still suck, if i remember right...he still way underperforms in the playoffs relative to his regular season accomplishments.

2. the last part isn't even worth responding to. but like a sucker, i will. you tell me that bonds redeemed himself last year....but that we know biggio will fail....ummmmm...mutually exclusive logic.


Da Da -- in the sample size we've seen of Jason Lane, he hasn't exactly wowed us. he's not some young phenom, despite your asssertions to the contrary. he's just not. i hope he has a great career...but i'm certainly not taking biggio out of this lineup in the middle of a pennant chase. the other substitutes i'm referring to are those that people say we should have traded for...like Jose Cruz, Jr....who i would definitely not start over Biggo...not even close.

 

Biggio's September stats:

23 games, 87 AB, 18 R, 25 Hits, 6 doubles, 1 triple, 3 HR, 13 RBI, 12 BB, 11 K, 2 SB, .287 AVG, .402 OBP, .482 SLG, .885 OPS

Can Lane top that?

 

Biggio has once again come through in September. The stats don't lie. Jason Lane isn't ready, the astros are trying to win a division not trying to teach a career minor leaguer

 

hell...forget lane...how many other leadoff hitters in the league can top that? i'm guessing the list is fairly short.

 

Here are some facts:

There are 11 players with over 300 at bats as leadoff men. From that list, Biggio is 8th in average, 5th in OBP, 5th in slugging, 2nd in walks - 57 (why are leadoff men so lousy at drawing walks nowadays? - of course, adding his HBP to walks gives him a much better number and a clear lead on the others), 2nd in the most important lead off man category of runs scored, 1st in RBI, 1st in HRs, 8th in SBs.

 

I can understand people starting threads like this during the middle part of the season when Biggio might be struggling, but how can anyone be calling for his head NOW?! He has been one of the biggest reasons of the teams resurgence. I would argue that he has been almost as important as Oswalt's return, since Craig plays in virtually every game. For the longest time, it seemed like our big time hitters (Bagwell, Kent, Hidalgo, Berkman) were mashing well at one point in the season, but there was rarely anyone on base to drive in. Biggio has changed that in September, and the team has responded.

As for the Jason Lane crap, if you Jimy had decided to bench Biggio and start Lane at this point in the season, and for some reason it didn't work out, all of these Biggio detractors would be screaming instead for Jimy's head. It's typical knee-jerk, mob-mentality fan reaction and it pisses me off.

And as for the argument that Biggio will never perform in the playoffs because he isn't clutch. If you will recall, the EXACT SAME THING was said of Bagwell for the longest time up until the last year we made the playoffs when he batted somewhere around .400, as I recall. Now all the sudden he is no longer a bad clutch player. Barry Bonds has one good playoff run out of however many he has been in, and suddenly the stigma is taken off him. I tell ya, "clutch" hitting is the most manipulated of all "stats" you will ever see people quoting to match their argument. More often than not, it means exactly nothing.

 

Don't hurt DD's head with facts



PG

 

Jason Lane cannot play CF on a regular basis. I've seen him play in RR/NO and he just isn't a CFer, he'd be adequite in RF but is basically a LFer. Biggio is without question a better defensive CFer.

Expect Merced to go elsewhere next year, and for Henri Stanley & Lane to be the reserve OFers, with Biggio starting in CF, barring some as of now unforseen acquisition.