Do you take people less seriously if they don't use basic grammar...?

so let me get this straight

You would not hire me . . .
not based on my education
not based on my personality
not based on my qualifications
not based on anything more than the formatting of messages on a message board

Ronny . . .
Based on your post. . . .
I would assume. . . .
You are the same person that doesn't hire a person because he doesn't look/dress/act/etc . . like you

If a company has such a superficial hiring manager. . . .
chances are it is not a good company

Rocket River
"And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you" - Tesla



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It's just a weird and irritating style. I glance over your posts like I'd glance over who is it that types in italics all the time, tmac&yao = ring or something? But I digress, the point is that both of your styles are unbearable on the eyes and are frequently looked over by me in any posts on this board.

 

alot of good things are frequently looked over
as per my previous example .. . Susan Boyle

Rocket River

 

You quoted me so I don't know if you are trying to argue but the above was mainly my point. My additional point was that "ignoring grammar" is no easier than using grammar if one knows it. That is adifferent animal.

 

Before this thread, I never thought about RR's posts in terms of reading difficulty. Although he doesn't follow all the writing rules, at least his thoughts are coherent. And he uses the "enter" key so it's not just a huge blob of stream of consciousness.

Then again, too many of my friends write emails that look like total crap. So maybe I'm just so used to such writings, that it doesn't bother me anymore.

 

my first paragraph.. was my sole reply to your post.. as it answer your intial point directly.. and answers your additional point aptly as well..

it really isn't a matter of either.. at least not as far as i'm concerned..

everything else in my response was directed at those it applies to..

 

There was a Cosby Show episode about this that went something like this : you can present a steak on a garbage can lid. It's still a steak and good looking, but your presentation sucked, so it won't matter - nobody wants to eat it after it's been on that lid.

 

I think this is the first post I've seen of yours that didn't mispell something.

Why is that?

As far as the whole debate- if I'm at work, and someone sends an email with really poor grammar, I definitely take them less seriously. It depends on the kind of errors they are making however.

 

The Susan Boyle stuff has got to stop...
(btw, I enjoy your posts RR)

Communication is a funny thing.


Go listen to a Tupac interview and tell me that you do not "feel" what he is saying. He does not use textbook grammar, but you can feel the heart and soul in everything he says. That is why language in general came about, an attempt to show another human being how you feel and what you are thinking. Unfortunately, It seems like most of the time, words are a very, very ineffective way to express your real feelings...


We may talk, but very rarely do we communicate...

 

I make my living based on my ability to communicate, verbally and in writing.

Verbally, the content of my message only goes as far as the presentation allows it to go. I have to be clear and concise in what I say. I have to articulate the message to the best of my ability so that the broadest of audiences can understand it, or the content, however insightful or persuasive it might be, is lost.

In writing, I still have to be able to communicate clearly and concisely and articulately. Proper grammar and proper spelling are parts of that clear communication. They make it easier for the reader to get to my message. What's more, they communicate something about my degree of education and intelligence. Or, rather, the lack of proper spelling and grammar would communicate the lack of intelligence or the lack of education. And, as rimbaud and others have commented, it should really be second nature as an adult to follow basic rules of spelling, and punctuation, and grammar.

On an internet message board, things are in many ways the same. Sure, using contractions is OK, this isn't formal writing. A spelling mistake isn't the end of the world. But if your writing style makes it difficult for everyone else to get to your message, then guess what? A good percentage won't bother to read your writing. And if they do read it but it comes across like a 15 year old kid was typing it as a text message to his buddies, then readers are naturally going to make assumptions about the poster's age and education and intelligence. That's human nature.

I read Rocket River's posts, without exception, in spite of his posting style. Because I know that he's a good basketball poster and a pretty thoughtful guy overall. But it does take more effort to read that style than it would to read a normal poster's work, just like reading the italics guy's posts takes more work, or someone who posts in 4 different fonts, or all in red, and not everyone will make that effort.

 

iTs ThIs I cAnT sTanD

 

Probably don't read enough of them.

as with most things
context will always play a part in it

QUESTION: On this board which is worse
A guy misspelling words and some grammatical errors
or a
guy constantly getting players names and positions wrong, and obviously don't know what he is talking about??

Rocket River

 

hmmm , yes, id say so, i get a bit lazy in my grammar too but i think theres a bare minimum required before i start losing respect for the poster, people dont get extra brownie points for me tho for having perfect grammar, its either acceptable or not....

another factor which contributes heavily to taking posts less seriously is the join date of a poster, especially in the GARM, tend to skim through posters from 2007-2009 as i automatically assume most of the time that they have no significant input to the topic at hand and if i come across a 99'er or a contributing member, i just assume what they have to post might be worth reading.

my 2c. oh yes, and btw, my minimum standard of acceptable grammar is based on whether someones grammar is worse than mine, ie:
if (your_grammar_level > my_grammar_level)
your_grammar_level = acceptable
else your_grammar_level = unacceptable

 

I think in most cases, quality of content and good grammar are correlated. If someone was an awesome poster and had a very "unique style" of communicating, I'd just chalk it up to irony and it would only add to my amusement. I wouldn't think they're a good poster BECAUSE they disregard grammar, spelling and punctuation.

To me, of the three, punctuation is the least important. It gets the message across but gives some creative license on the delivery. Probably a pain in the ass to read consistently on a message board though.

Honestly, we have a responsibility to encourage good grammar. It's not a complicated or elitist thing. Lax attitudes are not doing kids justice who live on text messaging and shorthand. It wont serve them later in life.

All language evolves, but when it does, it also should make communicating articulate thoughts easier. Most often slang just makes expressing vague thoughts easier... and stuff. Ya know, things and stuff? We're not aiming for style over substance. I could be wrong, but I hope not.

 

The content and form of writing are important, even on a message board, if your goal is communicating ideas. This doesn't mean that grammar or punctuation need to be perfect at all, but for me the thresh hold is pretty low before I start skipping the poster's posts.

As for Rocket River, I've always thought it was a shame that he posts in that format because I think he has valuable contributions to make to this board, but the value is in his ideas, not the "style" of his posts. I pretty much skip over all his posts now, just as I do swoly's, because I find the style irritating and hard to read.

 

To answer the thread's title question, yes, I do take people less seriously if they don't know how to utilize the rules of basic grammar. It definitely makes an impact.

With that said, I wouldn't entirely dismiss someone's post for that same reason. If the content is solid, it's definitely something I'll overlook. I don't think grammar is the sole determinate of a person's intelligence by any means.

Posting style doesn't necessarily affect my ability to take someone seriously, but it does, periodically, make the post more difficult to follow.

 

English, Pishh...i'm never going to England.

alternate response

Me, Fail English? That's Unpossible!

The Simpsons...A Quote for EVERY occasion

 

As a lazy reader, I don't read lazy writers.

Don't demand that much out of me!

 

I’m MUCH more inclined to read a post with good grammar (and PARAGRAPHS) than I am one that looks like a 14 year old girl is sending a text message. I mean, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but come on. At least make an effort. I’m not going to go Swoly-D every time I see a misspelled word, but a nice post without 15 spelling/grammar mistakes is SO much more aesthetically pleasing to read. Why would you purposefully not even try?

I also don’t get the people who say they don’t have time to capitalize etc. How much extra time does it take to press ‘shift’ at the beginning of every sentence??

If I post something besides a stupid one-liner (not often, but every once in a while….), I will type it in Word and paste it into my post. Partly because my browser at work doesn’t have spell check and partly because, if I’m in Word, it looks like I’m actually WORKING instead of posting on Clutchfans.