BTW, here's another fun fact about SUV's, courtesy of the fact page of Harper's magazine: The entire amount of oil in the Alaskan Oil reserve, which our (stupid) President wishes to drill, is substantially less than could be conserved by making SUV mileage requirements 3 mpg stricter, which would STILL not make them proportionally equivalent with cars. Cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and easier! ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
Of course, the bigger pollution problem is people like Puedlfor and his '68 Mustang (or really anyone who drives a pre-1994 car). Post-1994 SUVs are cleaner than most pre-1994 cars. And the 1999 and beyond standards for SUVs and light trucks exceeds the pre-1999 standards for cars. The 2004 standards will bring light trucks and SUVs to the same tailpipe emissions standards as passenger cars (lowering both significantly from current levels, but both would be subject to the same levels of emissions at that point instead of the relaxed standard for trucks today). So, if you're driving a car built before 1999, you're potentially causing more pollution than the person driving the brand new (post-1999) SUV. (based solely on tailpipe emissions). And if you're driving a pre-1994 car, you're potentially doing twice the damage that the brand new SUV is. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited May 17, 2001).]
haven, you want to talk about pollution...that's a whole other topic of discussion. Are you saying that because I drive an SUV that I'm polluting more than anyone. Come on now. Never mind the semi's that congest the freeways of Houston during rush hour, or the school buses that take our kids to school, or the hundreds of older cars that look like they're on their last leg (or tire) leaking oil/transmission/brake fluids all over oue streets, or, to take this beyond cars, the massive amount of refineries & manufacuring plants that are killing our environment a whole helluva lot worse than my SUV. If you want to complain about environmental standards then write your friggin representative and get things changed. But I think SUV's are the least of our environmental concerns. And I don't appriciate you calling me irresponsible. I have a new SUV, change the oil every 3000 miles just like I'm supposed to, check the brake fluid, check the transmission fluid, replace the filter when recommended, replace the air filter when recomended just so I don't pollute the environment. I think you're barking up the wrong tree, or at least a small insignificant tree. ------------------
1964 Chevy Impala 2000 GMC Sierra Z71 2001 Yukon XL In 2002 I'll add a '58 Vette I highly recommend them all. Not a problem with any that isn't routine.... ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.
floyd: Au contraire, SUV's pollute many times more than the average car, and now that almost as many are being bought, they problem is severe. There are far more SUV's than Semis and they *are* more of a problem. If you're considering buying a car, the environment is a consideration, so you have to understand that. By *your* actions, the environment is being materially worsened. If only those who badly needed them drove SUV's, global warming and smog would be less of a problem. Did you know, for instance, that lung cancer rates in many cities are as bad as smokers in the country-side? If everyone drove Hondas, and not SUVs, this wouldn't be a problem. Don't try to escape accountability. People have to understand how their individual actions affect the world. Face it, global warming's a reality, killing smog is a reality... if this doesn't bother you fine, but don't deny it. In the early 90's there was still scientific debate, but not hte preponderance of evidence is against you. The issues of cars and the environment are one and the same. If you really believe that your right to drive a gas-guzzling SUV is more important than the damage done to the environment, so be it... but I want you to understand the ramifications of the choice. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited May 17, 2001).]
By the way, one could achieve almost the same result (if not more) by requiring people to buy manual transmissions in their cars rather than automatics. A huge amount of gasoline is wasted each day solely because Americans are too lazy (in general) to shift the gears themselves. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
i love my car a 2000 isuzu rodeo LS, and it gets good gas mileage..also i like the smooth handling of my car. ------------------ How Sweet It Is! How Sweet It Is! Gene Peterson on the rockets winning the 1995 championship over the Orlando Magic
Now hold on just a second, while my car does indeed pollute more than a modern SUV(though the emissions were roughly comparable to a '96 Suburban), there are far more Sport Utility Vehicles on the road than cars like mine. Also, there are other objections I would have to SUVs than just pollution. For instance, the enormous size. When behind the SUV, they block out the road in front, and thus obstruct your vision. I tihnk of this is a big deal because I don't feel safe driving w/o knowing whats in front of me. They also take up a large portion of the lane, and as it is impossible to keep a car perfectly straight at all times, I have often seen them drift into my lane while driving. And I don't even want to think what would happen should there be an accident. ------------------ Charles Barkely on the Raptors defeating the Knicks in Round 1 :"I think it was the Lord. The Lord was with the Raptors. You know the Knicks like to talk so much about religion, but I think the Lord was a Raptor fan."
The 1999 standard for tailpipe emissions is: Cars: .3 grams per mile Light Trucks: .5 grams per mile The 1994 standard: Cars: .6 grams per mile Trucks: .6 grams per mile The 1988 standard: Cars: 1.0 grams per mile Trucks 1.2 grams per mile And the 2004 standard will be: Cars: .07 grams per mile Trucks: .07 grams per mile (By the way, the standard for heavy trucks is 1.53 grams per mile. That standard came into being in 1994. It was 1.7 grams per mile before that. Heavy trucks have until 2008 or so to meet the .07 standard). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
If you're really worried about the emmisions of your vehicle, and the consciousness of the enviorment, you would be riding a bike. ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.
Curly: I have you there. I only use public transportation. Public transportation doesn't cause much pollution at al. mrpaige: Those listings apply only to California. Besides, evne in CA, as long as they guzzle more gas, the aggregate emissions will still be greater. http://www.foe.org/act/cali-suv.html It's good to know that the parts per will be the same, though. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited May 17, 2001).]
Unless of course you have a lengthy commute. ------------------ Charles Barkely on the Raptors defeating the Knicks in Round 1 :"I think it was the Lord. The Lord was with the Raptors. You know the Knicks like to talk so much about religion, but I think the Lord was a Raptor fan."
I own a 2001 Acura MDX and I completly LOVE THIS SUV. It was Motor Trend's SUV of the Year. Gets great gas mileage for an SUV (17 City 24 Highway) and has stricter Emissions than most SUVs since it is manufactured in Canada. Seats 7 people and a lot of options that come standard like leather interior, Bose system, etc. I totally RECOMMEND the Acura MDX over any of the other Luxury SUVs i.e. Lexus RX 300, BMW X5, MB, etc. For more info go to the best Acura MDX website in the world www.acuramdx.org ------------------
I was talking about pollution specifically (and mentioned that). Certainly there are many other problems with SUVs that are not related to pollution. But it is a fact that older cars are far more damaging to the environment in terms of tailpipe emissions than current SUVs. Just talking tailpipe emissions alone, it would take six SUVs to produce the tailpipe emissions that one 1975-1981 car caused when new (and as cars age, they tend to pollute more, so the standard for the time is not necessarily what the car emits today). And a 1968 vehicle is even worse. So when you drive around in a 1968 Mustang, you're probably causing the same pollution as at least ten post-1994 SUVs. I don't like SUVs, either (my bigger problem is that no one seems to know how to drive them. So many people drive them as if they were driving a Ford Taurus. They don't seem to take into account the high center of gravity or the increased weight of the vehicle. And seeing around them can be a problem, as you said. Also, I don't like the fact that they get such poor gas mileage. I'm just saying that the pollution stuff may well be overhyped in regards to SUVs. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
I got the numbers from the EPA website. It said they were U.S. numbers, not California numbers (and if anyone would know, I'd think it would be the EPA, since they're the ones who set the standards). As I read closer, I will note a caveat to my numbers. The EPA's 1999 standards were not completely phased in that year. The rules were set for New England states to require those rules in 1999 with the rest of the country getting them in 2001. So, it's possible that some SUVs and cars did not meet the standards if they weren't sold in the Northeast. The 2004 standards I spoke of were required by the 1990 Clean Air Act. It's known as Tier II, and California voted to adopt these standards themselves before the EPA adopted them for the entire country. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited May 17, 2001).]
could you give me the link? I'm not finding it on their site. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
I totally RECOMMEND the Acura MDX over any of the other Luxury SUVs i.e. Lexus RX 300, BMW X5, MB, etc. For more info go to the best Acura MDX website in the world I took a look at both the MDX and BMW X5 also. The MDX looked great -- they told me there's a 2 month wait to get one here, but I loved the standard set of features. Some of the other cars have a mix of features -- I want some parts of each model, but for some dumbass reason, you can't do that. The X5 was phenomenal, but I didn't like the sight lines and didn't feel too comfortable in it (they are both a bit large for me). It also handles and accelerates much like a sports car, and that defeats the purpose of trying to keep me alive. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
haven -- Do you own a vehicle? If so, you're a hypocrite. If you ever own a vehicle, you're a hypocrite. Like another poster said, if you don't take a bike or walk wherever you go, you're a hypocrite. Which is better for the environment, public transportation, or a bike? Public trans, or walking? If you really cared, you'd get a job and go to school close enough to where you live so that you could walk or bike there. Otherwise, you're contributing to the problem.
haven: That's not enough you have to go 100% or nothing at all. j/k... Puedlfor: Find a closer job! again j/k If you really want to cut down on emmisions, take a look at the hot dogs they sell at the ball park! WOW. ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.
Alright, I found some documents on the subject at epa.gov, and they say that these guidelines were only recommended by the EPA, adopted by CA, and will be reviewed later. They have not been adopted for national use, according to the EPA. Curly: I'm not among them, but some people wish to require emissions standards on gas grills. I haven't looked into it personally. That's all I'm seeing. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited May 17, 2001).]
