They can be said to be personal because as you pointed out yourself, the courts have to provide access. But we are talking about wiretapping of phone conversations. The courts have already ruled that it can't be wiretapped without court order. The people of the united states need to be protected from their govt. When those safeguards are ignored then the constitution has not been upheld. And any terrorists that hate our freedom, have just one a major victory.
Its more than just what he deems unconstitutional but what he deems hinders his ability to conduct national security. Warrants are completely Constitutional and the DOJ in their letter to the Congress don't argue that but are claiming that the need to get a warrant, even going through FISA, hinders their ability and that in regard to dealing with a foreign threat the President can act with no hindrance.
It is scary. In a short time our nation has taken fairly large steps towards becoming a dictatorship. The scary thing is that many people are taking those steps willingly.
Yes I believe in the Constitution And yes I believe it is being violated illegally by corrupt politicians.
if electronic communication still does not exist, what will people be using? paper.. paper was the only form of storing communcation back then.. so any form of private communication now is still personal property right?
If he's using it to spy on terrorists there would be no problem getting retroactive permission. If he's using it to spy on PETA, or an Amish group meeting then he might have some difficulty.
Actually Consitution is only needed when it suit my need and can be discarded when it does not, ya that is my new defination of the constitution.
I guess this thread is the equivalent of the Bush supporters calling their foes traitors. Happy 2006 everyone.
As far as I can tell, the arguement is that anything that hinders his ability to operate in defense of national security is automatically unconstutional.
The intent was to hear people's constitutional based rationale concerning some of the recent events that have taken place. It didn't seem like most folks felt they were being insulted nor was that the intent. I think basso brought up some interesting arguments about what communications are classified as personal or private etc. I disagree with his philosphy on this, but I think he responded by addressing the constitution and it didn't seem like he thought he was being called a traitor or any kind of equivalent. I wished he was still responding to the rebuttles because I thought it was interesting discussion.
That makes sense to me but according to the argument put forward by the DOJ they don't even need warrants in the first place and shouldn't be bothered with having apply for them at all.
It depends on what the definition of "is" is. The Constitution, The Bible, The Koran, or any other piece of literature is subject to interpretation. That's why there are such things as lawyers, preachers and Mullahs. It's not too hard for a commited advocate to interpret any written word as supporting his position.
Well said. I'll leave it here because I definitely agree with this part, but I still see the virtues of gathering haste intelligence on a new kind of threat (terrorists)...
I agree with this entirely. Biggest flaw in the Constitution: It states that anyone born in the U.S. is a U.S. citizen. It should be "anyone born in the US to a legal citizen or legal visitor is a U.S. citizen." Through this flaw, the children of all the millions of illegal aliens in this country will all be US citizens.
Poem The New Collossus inscribed at the foot of the Statue of Liberty. [rquoter] Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame, "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" [/rquoter]
