I know and sorry if that came off an inquisition. I do think the nature of God though is a very important question.
you're asking for my opinion, right? i believe God hears everyone's prayers. honesty is a good thing, though. i know people who have prayed saying, "look, I don't know if you're there...i don't know if you're real...but here's what i'm going through...." I think God absolutely honors that. I believe God loves everyone...those who believe and those who don't believe. I believe He commands me to love in that same way.
I believe that God hears everyone's prayers. I don't pretend to understand why He chooses to answer some and not others. I do think that He honors faith in Him, but I have to trust His omniscience in how He answers prayer.
i'm glad you feel that way. but why pray at all, or even believe? how does all this square with salvation?
Thadeus has already written a far better response than I could in regard to Nietzsche but I think do think the question of choice in regard to Christianity is important. My understanding is that originally Man wasn't in a state of sin in Eden but that original sin has left every human since then tainted. Jesus was sent to redeem humanity but that accepting that redemption is a choice by voluntarily having faith in Jesus. What that says to me though is while the World as a whole is neither good nor evil humanity is inherently evil / sinful and it is only through faith that one is redeemed and the benefit of redemption is Heaven. Again this is an outsiders understand but it seems to me then that the promise of Heaven, and conversely the damnation of Hell, are much more important than the here and now physical world. While actions matter here and now the real consequence of actions now is the life after which would seem to me to set up a dichotomy between this world and whatever comes next.
I think prayer is all just a matter of pure coincidence. As for me personally, I get lots of coincidences when I pray to God and rarely any when I don't.
great questions. Christ prayed. he told others to pray. he helped teach them how to pray, in fact. there's something about prayer that is much larger than the outcome you might pray for. there's something about encountering God that way that's transformative. at least that's what i've experienced...and i know others who feel the same way. i think you can look at the Lord's prayer as a model...starting with awe and reverence of God...but with the intimacy of Christ when he used a word that more closely resembles Daddy than Father. God isn't a cosmic slot machine or a lucky charm that sometimes helps you get what you want. That reduces Him, big time...and it's just a complete misconception (very American/materialistic, I might add) of who He is and what He asks of us.
and as a Christian I would humbly suggest that this is a faulty perception of what Christianity is about.
why does He want awe and reverence from us? my father never expected that from me and i certainly don't want it from my children.
I don't necessarily know that He *wants* awe and reverence from us, but He created the Universe. Doesn't that merit awe and reverence?
i think it's difficult to contemplate God as I understand Him without awe and reverence. i think it just kinda comes with the territory. but look, i'm pretty relaxed about HOW i pray. i take my time with Him seriously...as it's a huge part of me. but i was reading the other day from a book an iman gave me at a mosque i visited a year or so back about ritual cleansing and ablution for Muslims to pray to Allah...that they need to snort water through their nose, among other things, to be clean enough for God to hear them. to make sure that if they've had sex, that they shower before they address him, or else their prayers will be worthless. i'm not trying to be critical of another faith, but that's not the kind of reverence i'm talking about. just a reverence of heart...a spirit of humility.
Sishir- That is a great sermon, no Christian preacher could improve on it. You probably would like more understanding of it, but you have the basics down pat. The original sin issue is not just a simple Adam sinned so we are sinners. It is explained more thoroughly in the Bible. MadMax has emphasized the separation from God aspect of Adam's action and that is very important to understand. Sin originates inside of us, the heart, the spirit, whatever word you want to use for your conscience, will and mind. Whatever relationship and connection Adam had to God before sin, Adam lost it because of sin. This loss fell to all of Adam's descendents. Originally Adam had an innocent and pure inside (heart, mind, etc) His sinful choice corrupted that purity and innocence (thus his reaction of fear to God's presence). To complicate this because of these consequences Adam's descendents never had the opportunity to have that innocence and purity of heart and mind. So all have sinned due to the nature of the inside person. Salvation affects both areas. The separation between God and man (the guilt of man) and the corrupted inside of man (the heart of man). To say I am a sinner because Adam was a sinner is not entirely seeing the whole picture. I am a sinner because I sin. But by human (corrupted) nature I cannot make choices based upon a pure and uncorrupted heart because that was lost long ago. The Bible calls selfishness- going our own way- rebelling against God and God's laws. The Bible calls love this way- Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and your neighbor as much as yourself. Without right and wrong there cannot be 'sin'. Using a Bible definition- Love is right Selfishness is wrong God so loved us that He sent Jesus to suffer in our place- (dying on the cross) a punishment He took on our behalf. So that whoever would turn away from their sins and believe in Jesus work would receive forgiveness. The Good News is that if you realize and admit you are sinful (selfish); therefore separated from God and understand that Jesus took your deserved (in other words you are not making excuses for yourself- pride) punishment; then such love would cause you to turn away from sin and humble yourself to God. To admit and forsake sin is the proof of real faith. Salvation is the redemption of man's guilt, renovation of man's heart and reconciliation of God and man's relationship. Powerful stuff. Spiritual stuff JESUS STUFF!
actually, no. i've had enough barney with my kids to last me a lifetime. if Barney were God i'd be worshipping the Anti-Barney.
Would it be audacious of me to suggest that prayer and meditation are really the same thing? Both do excellent things for the mind. You might say meditation is focused inward while prayer is focused on God.. but from my point of view, I certainly think there's a possibility that God (however you choose to define it or whatever version you believe in) may very well reside within each and every one of us In less agreeable terms: God exists only in the mind? OK, that's probably going to draw some objections.. sigh
That is because as Christians we aren't focused upon escaping some punishment or trying to get to the 'pearly gates' from a Christians perspective life is all about a love affair with Jesus. I am bananas for Jesus, I love Him and I have never even seen Him. Christians don't think much of the afterlife because we have peace with God. But for those who don't have any peace from God they I have a very different question. I remember what it was like when I was young and my conscience was tender and I sinned. I felt that guilt and shame. Once my conscience was hardened more as I kept sinning- sin no longer seemed much of an issue. For a Christian sin is not desirable anymore. We don't feel right 'pounding' the nails into Jesus. We see Him as the innocent party. As the Bible says why would we want to crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame, or why would we continue in sin so that grace can abound? The peace Jesus gives us makes us wonder why heaven and hell are an issue at all, until we remember where we once lived- separated from Him by sin.
Is that something that applies to Christians in general? My perception, and it is my own perception and I don't say its fact, is that many Christians have faith because of the promise of Heaven and / or the fear of Hell. It also seems to me that much of the prosetlyzation of Christianity is focused on those also.
I think organized Christianity (churches, TV evangelism, etc...) is structured too heavily around the principle of original sin. Without free will, there is no sin. Without free will, there is no right or wrong. Yet free will is said to be one of God's most important gifts. Throughout history, people have yearned for freedom. People have wanted to make lives for themselves and for it to have meaning. What if in that Adam and Eve parable, Eve, for that moment, realized the gravity of eating the fruit of knowledge, and despite the negative consequences willingly gave it to Adam? That'd mean she'd want to live a life we take for granted. It's a life with an impact and meaning. It's a life with pain and suffering, but the reward is much much greater. It's one that seperates you from another animal in a garden. I don't pray, but it's a strong acknowledgement that some things are beyond your control. IMO, the personal benefits of prayers is that it allows a person to accept events in life that shouldn't be dissected or torn apart. It's a humbling to realize how small we individually are in the grand scheme of things.
Prayer is different for Muslims. When we pray we think of nothing else but god, once we start we forget about this world, or the hearafter, but we think of God, we do that 5 times a day. Abulation is more of a spirtual thing, you cleanse yourself, before you aproach god in our prayer, it's supposed to cleanse your miner sins of the day, and also supposed to keep clean which is big in Islam. That's all about our prayer, not when we want to "pray" like others do, we call that suplicating. You can suplicate to God whenever you want, it doesn't wanter if you have abulation, or didn't take a bath after having sex, he's always there to hear and listen to you.
First I think Christian faith is in a person- Jesus Christ Heaven and Hell- hmmmmm, This is becoming a very large issue within Christian faith. I read alot and there are new ideas (some call it post-modern thought) in the churches. Heaven and Hell themselves are being defined in various ways. Jesus said it was better to lose your eye if it caused you to sin and enter Hell. Often I hear Christians struggling with the concept of the justice of God and the love of God. I think this is because the basic moral character of God in my opinion is being humanized. We seem to want God to be like us. The Bible gives a very clear understanding of how a Holy and Loving God views sin. I think it is hard for mere man to see sin in the same light. Sin is the ruin of loving relationship. So in that context Jesus said He did not come to condemn the world, but to save, He said the world was already condemned. Jesus said God gave the Son so the world would not perish. Another place He said don't fear those who can destroy the body only, but fear Him who can destroy body and soul in Hell. So some Christians feel deep compassion knowing that Jesus suffered for the world for forgiveness of sins and feel greatly impressed to share the Good News of forgiveness. This love was in Jesus, He said He came to seek and save the lost. This love can be seen in the lives of the early apostles. And for this reason some Christians have a genuine love concern that people do not die and enter Hell. Jesus said we could gain the whole world and still lose our soul. Some Christians believe the soul is eternal and we will be resurrected and live eternally in heaven or hell. I have seen very unloving abuse of this also where Christians are trying to 'hammer' the heaven and hell upon people, even trying use fear to intimidate people. This is not anything like Jesus or what the Bible teaches. Even if you were to view this as a warning, it is never intended to be with such self interest and self righteousness that it hurts people. The thought of sharing Good News in an arrogant aggressive approach distorts the message. Instead love should be the 'law' of every Christian. People would like to see the loving character of Jesus Christ in Christians and that earns respect and further conversation. Whether heaven and hell are made the focus of a presentation of Jesus Christ is something that should be guided by God's Spirit. The centrality of the message is the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The entire person of Jesus (who is living) is the message of redemption. I believe Jesus Himself should be every Christian's focus. If I give you a cup of water when you are thirsty in Jesus name, if I come to see you when you are sick or help you when you are in need without any selfish motive, just because I love you- then I certainly have been a witness to the love of Jesus Christ. That is the heart of true Christian witness. The presentation of sin and judgment if made humbly and lovingly should come with the same compassion and grace. After all what is more valuable than an eternal soul and what is more tragic than to die in sin and enter hell. My own heart aches for anyone who would hear the message of Jesus and reject such infinite and gracious love. When a person is spiritually born into God's Kindgom through faith in Christ they become a new creation spiritually. They receive God's own Holy Spirit. The results of this is a filling inside of love, joy and peace. This is called the fruit of the Spirit. Because of this love, joy and peace from God heaven and hell do not remain a personal focus, typically I have experienced and seen that Christians focus more and more on Jesus and their love and trust in Him. I love Jesus with all my heart. I feel like a beggar at the King's table. I have problems and temptations just like anyone else- I need Jesus daily, I love Him. I always receive in my own heart from Him more than I deserve or ask for. In fact I am really daily amazed at the love of God in Jesus Christ. I don't understand the love of God that He puts in my own heart. It is a mystery to me. But I wish everyone could know Him and His love Thank you if you could make it through such a long rambling.
