Do you believe in JVG as a championship coach?

Most posters in this thread have sung JVG praises. He is well respected and supported.

As for Jerry Sloan and Utah- he has a system that is much greater than it's parts. He had players like Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Byron Russell that thrived in his system that floundered elswhere. Sloan has shown us this year what he can repeatedly do with consistency year in and year out.

Van Gundy is a fine coach that can lead us to a championship I believe, but keep in perspective he needs gunners / leaders like Sura, T-Mac, Yao, a healthy Wesley,or a healthy Jon Barry for success. There is no shame in that.

I give Sura and T-Mac the credit for our offensive success in the run that began in Jan -'05 carrying us to the playoffs with Dallas. In that period Van Gundy gave us one of the toughest defensive teams in the league that sustained that team's success on a consistent basis for that run.

Jeff Van Gundy gets credit for that team's success and he should receive it. He needs the help now to get us there again.

Sloan can be successful with a system- plugging parts in.

I support this coach. I am a Rocket team fan.

 

I am a known Jackson hater. So don't include me in there. And I am not a JVG basher. In fact, I'd take JVG over Jackson every day.

I believe JVG has strengths and weaknesses. Talent evaluation is his weakness.

So what's the point? Did any of these veterans help the Lakers win? I'd say only Harper played a somewhat significant role on that team. Phil Jackson didn't make good decisions acquiring those old broken down players. Should JVG be praised for doing the same thing simply because the Lakers won DESPITE the bad personnel decisions?

So who is bashing the management for the Battier trade? Anyway, if the coach is soon gone, why would he get inexperienced players? Shouldn't he try to win now by getting veterans?

It's not about veterans or young players. It's about talent recognition. I have no problem with getting experienced players if they are good and can be productive for at least the duration of their contracts. What makes me mad is JVG's constantly acquiring unusable players and dumping them after a short while.

BTW, I did not include Alston as JVG's bad acquisition because I think it was CD's panicked move when Sura went down. However, the fact that CD would panick was due to the coaching decision that Mike James was not going to be their starting PG.

 

I find these two statements kind of funny
Didn't JVG 'walk out' too . . .and he wasn't having surgery

and that team that made it to the finals. . . well I beleive it had some
pretty good players in their Prime
Camby, Spree, Alan houston . .
they may not have had the superior inside game to the spurs
but
Their Back court was better than the Spurs

Sean Elliot I beleive was on that spurs team
[was it after the surgery?] I would not say he was VASTLY superior
to the opposing 3.

I think Exagerate on how bad that knicks team was just to promote the Myth
[it should not have been an 8th place team to begin with. . . in fact I beleive they were suppose to be the cream of the East that season]

Rocket River

 

I know this is not popular but
I don't think Jerry Sloan is a championship caliber coach

Championship Caliber is more than X's and O's
Take his team this year
they won't goto the championship
I *never* worry about Utah
Only reason they went to they ever went to the championship
was a Ref refused to throw a flag on a holding penalty on Malone
for bear hugging Drexler
[barkley not rotating didn't hurt]

Jerry Sloans team do not have the SECOND GEAR that championship
caliber teams have. Every year they won 60 games
and got run out of the playoffs.

NO I do not think Jerry Sloan is a Championship Caliber Coach
a GREAT X's and O's man . .
but he does not inspire players to play beyond themselves
He has a system that maximizes what talent he has
but
The system is good. . . basically whether you have stars or not
it runs about the same .. .

Rocket River

 

Well then this defeats the purpose.

I believe JVG has strengths and weaknesses. Talent evaluation is his weakness.[/quote]
Which is why he doesn't do talent evaluation...but...

The point is that playing rookies and "developing young players" which is what critics are frequently screaming about is largely the province of bad coaches on bad teams.

How do you know they were even "bad personnel decisions"? Have you analyzed their seasons? Have you cited who the top young rookies that could have filled the veteran minimum space alloted for these guys? Are you telling me that more PT for Devean George and Slava Medevedenko and Mark Madsen would have left the Lakers even better off thsoe seasons?

And you're wrong to suggest that only Harper played a somewhat significant role. AC Green, in the last year of his career, put in 23 minutes a game that season. Brian Shaw played 16 mpg that year and 22 the following year. Horace Grant played 30 mpg. JR Rider played 18 mpg. Lindsey Hunder played 20 mpg. Samaki Walker played 24 mpg. The only guys who played insignficant minutes that I listed were Salley (who palyed about the same as rookie Devean George) and Mitch Richmond who was literally on his last legs that season.

(btw, The other members of that team that were significant around Kobe and Shaq were Glen Rice, Rick Fox, and Robert Horry - not exactly spring chickens. Derek Fisher was the only major "young" player and he was in his 4th year and splitting time with Harper when Jackson arrived)

Most of the veteran players that we acquire are midseason acquisitions on used in stop-gap situations - what hidden gems did we forfeit for this?

I agree that was a mistake.

BUt anyway you're missing the point that has gone largely unnoticed. Search for "develop young players/developing younger players" and you'll find this is probably the #1 complaint for the JVG basher (while oddly the #1 replacement is Phil Jackson, who is apopleptic at the sight of a rookie on the cour). Like I said earlier - coaches that are brought in to develop younger players are largely former college coaches who seem intuitively suited to the task - and are spectacular failures like John Calipari, Rick Pitino, or Tim Floyd. Even the ones that manage to stick around the NBA for a while (Bill Fitch, Don Nelson, Brian Hill) are considered to be strictly average at best and are distinctly second rate compared to the Phil Jacksons and Pat Rileys of the universe as being unable to win.

 

Absolutely not true. That was all on Van Dummy. CD did every thing he could to get James to the Rockets and then JVG requested a truer pg. Not necessarily to get rid of James in the process but that's what it took. CD has history of being a straight up guy with players. JVG has a history of throwing his mother in a trade if he gets what he wants. See Jim Jackson.

 

DD I think you've made some very good points to why JVG is not a championship caliber coach. His preparation for teams is obvious, but his in game adjustments are usually slow or nonexistent.

He pushes his players a little to hard in my opinion which leads to injuries. He wants them to practice and play hard, and that's fine nothing wrong with that, but Yao and T-mac are injury prone and they need to rest especially in practice.

He over plays his starters another thing that leads to injuries. Another thing about his rotations is that he often pulls a guy right when he's getting hot. Head hits a few back to back shots and boom next dead ball he's on the bench.

JVG is a championship caliber assistant coach who has great defensive schemes, but he should be subordinate to a head coach that does not have his above weaknesses.

Can the Rockets win a title with their current team I think the Rockets have enough talent to win a title and overcome JVG's weaknesses. It's all about the timing. If we can get MVP Yao on the court with the current Old Orlando T-mac and surround them with quality role players all at the same time we can beat any team in the NBA. So far we have never been able to combine all 3 of the ingredients at once due to injuries or not having the right role players.

 

Very simply put, if at this point in the season you don't realize that JVG is in the top 4 or 5 active coaches in the NBA, you're just a highlight watching sports center fan and you have a very poor understanding of how good winning basketball is played.

The Suns will not win a championship playing the brand of basketball they are playing, is it fun to watch? absolutley, will they beat Dallas or San Antonio? Lets just say I've got a better shot at cracking Jessica Alba.

Defense, discipline, rebounding, teamwork the things that JVG streeses to his teams, are the things that win championships. So absolutely, if this team is healthy its going deep in the playoffs. But it takes more than a good coach(a little luck being among them) to get a team over the hump and into a finals.

 

They did? Link!

If Phoenix wins, I'll tip my cap... Nash already has 2 MVP's, so I can't really say he's not getting the credit he deserves... but man, he is a special player (and will be even more special if he can get that style to win).

But, I don't see other teams rushing to emulate them unless they have a guy like Nash at the helm. And, if you think you can just pick any speedy PG like TJ Ford and make him as good as Steve Nash, then you're in the same predicament that Cuban was in when he overrated Nash's impending decline due to age.

 

Back in the 60's, if you had the best players (which the Celtics ended up having), that was everything... there was no depth to the the league, and you can clearly see there was no parity after that as well.

These days, you have multiple DOMINANT half-court teams: Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas, and when healthy, Houston. You have ONE fun and gun team that actually wins... Phoenix.

The odds are against them... and even if they manage to win one, other teams won't be as successful unless they get another Steve Nash (which is about as rare as the last great MVP winning PG in Magic Johnson... once every 15-20 years).

 

Name them... and name their overbearing coaches that are holding them back from winning multiple MVP's.

Remember... Nash was a potential HOFer before he ever went back to Phoenix. A perennial all-star for a Mavs team he he led deep into the playoffs on multiple occasions.

 

I think he is a good coach..upfront with his players and doesn't back down to today's cry baby players....his pessimism could use a little tweaking though but I think he is a good coach that can lead us where we want to go...thats on the players...

 

He's only pessimistic towards the media and his addresses to the fans... players don't see that side of him.

Howard, T-Mac, Wesley, Barry, and Sura have all gone on record saying they were suprised that he's not Van Grumpy like he is in the media.

 

Wait. . . JVG can only win with JVG type players . .
in a JVG type system . . . what are you saying about JVG?

Rocket River

 

Sure... hell, Stephon Marbury and Barron Davis can also run a fast break uptempo offense (possibly better than the ones you mentioned above).

That's not the argument... the argument is that are there other players out there that would make their teams as competitive as the Suns have been the last two years? (and contend for MVP's in the process)... enough to where the entire scope of the NBA would change from half-court dominance to fun and gun?

Derron Williams is thriving in s STRUCTURED system in Utah, and Jason Kidd already showed (even the younger one who was an MVP candidate) that he couldn't win it all with a fun and gun team.

Furthermore, Mike Bibby couldn't do it with an offensive powerhouse in Sacramento... and the previous incarnation of Nash couldn't do it with the offensive powerhouse in Dallas.

These uptempo teams have been around for a LOOOONG time... but out of all those teams, only the 80's Lakers and the current version of the Suns are almost as profiecient in the halfcourt as they are playing uptempo. What are the common denominators with those two teams? MVP PG's in Magic Johnson and Steve Nash (not to mention dominant big men in Kareem and Amare).

And the only reason why the Lakers won 5 titles, while the Suns have yet to go to the Finals, is that the Lakers could play defense... probably because they had JVG's daddy still preaching the philosophies that are still vital to win championships (good defense, rebounding, intensity, hustle, execution in the half court).