I am in a similar mind set. I cannot prove God or a higher power exists-but my faith -belief in God will sustain me - I do not have to waste any energy trying to prove God's existence. There is a higher power I can find comfort in- and that is simply enough for me.
no need to be sorry, because you are right those who say you're gonna go here of there after you die are out of line because they have no idea, as only God knows these things like the saying goes, "judge not lest ye be judged"
There are good points in here. I do not absolutely "know" God or "Know" of God's existence. For me- and IMHO faith is something different than "knowing" God. I am comfortable with my faith in the existence of God. Even if there is/ was no God-I do not think I will be harmed in any way. Faith isolated is an attribute and strength by itself. I was reading a strange book recently. Jehovah's witnesses were agknowledged for their strength in faith. Jehovah's witnesses held in Nazi death camps -though few were recognized for their strength and determinatioin- they refused to submit or renounce their belief/faith in the existence of God. The Nazi's could not understand how faith could be so powerful for this group. My point is - the Jehovah's witnesses faith gave them a power and strength the Nazis were unable to comprehend. Sorry for my inability to make a point- but that strength and determination really impressed me. I cannot think of a more dire circumstance. This left me with an admiration for these Jehovah's witnesses. I am in awe of them. I was raised in an Episcopalean (sp?) church-very similar in ways to Catholic services and prayers. This is all I know and I find great comfort in familiar prayers and ritual. My son and I recently attended a funeral for a 15 year old girl who died suddenly from a viral infection. My son questioned me about the existence of God- and why God would take this beautiful young child. Of course I could not answer this- I will never know or understand how or why this young lady should die. I could only tell him that there was a reason she was taken that I could not understand- and that I would focus all energy on prayer and comfort for the surviving Mom and Dad. My faith made this manageable.
again, no need to apologize, you made a very good point, very admirable about the little girl who died, well maybe you could tell your son that God took her from this world, where she would have had much grief in her lifetime, as we all do, and instead brought her to be in His kingdom; we should be happy for her, know what I mean?
You can probably get the same mental comfort with drugs and alcohol, and you'd be in charge of your own mental health!! -NP
Jokes aside, let's summarize the discussion so far: (1) Religious people cannot prove the existence of God or anything supernatural. (2) Atheist people cannot prove that God doesn't exist -- such proof is theoretically impossible. (3) Whether one believes in God or not has no bearing on whether God exists. (4) Believing in God is a personal choice. A person believing God is fundamentally doing so to make him/herself feel better. (5) Because of (4), there is no reason why religious people cannot co-exist peacefully with atheists, provided their beliefs do not inconvenience others. Have I missed anything? -NP
I define the term "atheist" as anyone who does not believe in anything supernatural, and the term "religious people" as anyone who believes in the existence of supernatural powers. With this definition, a person is either an atheist, or religious.
This idea that faith is different then rationality I think is wrong. I think our faith comes from reason. I think we can't help but reason through everything. Its why we are defined as rational beings. When you have faith in God you have faith in God because you reason that its a good thing to have faith in God. Reality when examined can be a pretty crazy thing. Philosophers have been fighting over what is reality for a long time. Is this the real world or are we in a sort Matrix world? I read an interesting article that mathematically showed we probably exist in a matrix world. Weird stuff. I personally think our minds work as a sort of probability machine. We take the information we are given and think well the best odds are in blank. With the existence of God many of you argued it makes you feel good, helps you be productive, it helps you cope, etc etc. But this is thinking.......this is exactly what faith is. By the way Deckard, your point three is someone who is nothing more than a hedonist. Not everyone operates based on that.
I don't feel a need to believe one way or the other on this, but I think it's unlikely that any supreme being is guiding the universe. Maybe our language lacks the ability to even conceptualize such a thing. I could believe all sorts of things, and I have. But, I've noticed enough consistency in my character to realize that whatever abstract entity I do or don't believe in, my actions and thoughts tend to be guided by different things. It's like that entire inner dialogue of belief exists in a separate compartment - and the reason for that is that it's too abstract. There's no point in espousing the existence of something that can't be experienced. So, I don't really care if God(s) exist, because if it/they exists and this is all we get from them (concerning their existence), then that existence has no discernible impact on my life or my decisions at all. If I can't sense it/them in some clear, unambiguous way - either through direct contact or the sense of some external force guiding my life - then that existence, whether real or imagined, makes no difference to me. So, my answer to the question "Do you believe in God?" is "It doesn't matter" and my answer to the more abstract question "Does God exist?" is "I don't care."
Actually the opposite is true. I get comfort knowing there is a higher power at an AA meeting. My understanding of God is little more than that of a child- but that makes it no less effective for me in my opinion. I do not think I can get the same spiritual strength from Oprah Winfrey or Elvis-or alchohol or drugs
I believe the proof of god is seen in everything around us, just look at our bodies, its functionality is brilliant…I don’t need any more evidence than that.
Your family can get high/drunk with you together -- everyone will be happy. You can use drugs and alcohol only when you need God, you don't need God to get through life 24/7, do you?
If you can have faith in something that cannot be proved to exist, imagine the faith you'd have in things that not only actually exist but also can be understood by you!! Ok, Oprah is a woman, so you probably won't understand her , but her existence is self-evident -- that's already better than God in my opinion! If you just want people to share the faith, I'm sure there is plenty of people in your local Oprah fan club/pubs/back ally with whom you can share your faith in Oprah/alcohol/drugs. Give it a try!
Oh but it is. Perception is rarely reality. A great extent that which we consider to be objective reality is actually shaped by our own mind.
I didn't know I had numbered my points, such as they are, but your statement to me is merely your opinion... no more, no less, although it may seem all important to you. That is your definition, not mine. I don't believe in a god, or gods, based on an absence of proof. Given "proof," I am open to changing my mind. In my opinion, that doesn't meet your definition. The people I know who consider themselves atheists don't allow for anything to change their opinion, and I respect that, just as I respect those who believe in religion. D&D. Gods in Space.
