Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, this is my own pastoral post, not directed to any Christian or non Christian posting- I say that because I just read the entire thread and there were Christian like answers and non Christian like answers. I couldn't tell you who posted what, but my response has to do with sin in general because it is a subject either too often avoided or used to demonstrate Christian arrogance at times. I will also address the OP's question, To a Christian- Jesus Christ was brutally beaten, tortured, lashed to a pulp, suffered a prolonged and agonizing crucifixtion until He died in shame and humiliation. All to pay a price for the sins mankind commits. I am getting a little tired of sin being treated so lightly. I do not appreciate Christians who minimize any sin. I hear pastors who make talking about sin evil instead of sin evil- We have a savior that can save us from sin against God. Considering the brutal and costly price Jesus gave at the cross, I think love for Jesus would include a desire to get away from sin. I cannot accept Christians skirting the issue of sin in light of the cross. If the death of Jesus happened and it happened for the sins we all commit then I hate sin, first and especially in me. I am not aware of any 'grace' that winks at sins or minimizes the sufferings of Jesus by treating sin against God as just being human. Everyone has the same opportunity to make choices that please God as choices that wrong His word, His character and His grace. I see an amazing grace in Jesus that forgives, gives another chance, that takes away the things that are vile and evil. Christians perfect. Ha! what a joke. Christians should be humble, meek and loving- sincerely. Christians live under the authority of Jesus and reflect His character in their own unique way. They make themselves poor to give to the needy, they walk in truth to be humbled by their own shortcomings, they offer others a true testimony of forgiveness of sin because they have been forgiven so much themselves. To a non-Christian- When you point out some 'pet' issue as to whether it is right and wrong in God's eyes you do all Christians a diservice, at least I for one do not focus on the faults of others but I want to focus on the forgiveness purchased by Jesus Christ. I see no point in 'calling' people out as liars, thieves and adulterers. Dang, we all need to become more like Jesus, do we need finger pointing? I have found plenty of bible verses that make right and wrong clear. If someone seriously wants to know what I think the bible says about homosexuality I would be glad to meet you with my bible in hand and we can read together, understand what we can and let God take care of what we don't understand. I really, and emphasize really don't think it matters how I feel about homosexuality or any other sin. I serve in a church that depends on my opinions constantly. You should see how quick I open the bible and search with them, I think one day God will ask me just what I told people and if its not a bible verse its should be close. Mankind should only pursue God's opinion in these things. When I am asked how God feels about any sin I point people towards the bible. There may be muich smarter Christians who have all the answers on today's issues but I don't trust any answer that does seem clear in the bible. To the OP- I love men.
This is what I try to tell black people that doesnt like gay people. Because the way they look down on gay people is the same way it was for black people a long time ago. All this time and we still havent learn how to judge a person by their character. So sad.
^^^ X1000 i'm not even going to bother with discussing the ridiculousness and insult (actually yes i am) of posting that image on a message board as some sort of a rockhead rule for your moot point. that was more insulting than anything else in this thread. you've spent a fair amount of time in this thread debating "folx" and picture posting instead of articulating your "complicated" reasons. ok... so it starts with that (above) and ends with what? i went to this interfaith thanksgiving service at rothko chapel late last year and the theme was "the freedom to disagree". there were speakers from multiple religions... jain, buddhist, muslim, sikh, christian, etc. the theme was common in them all. the christian preacher read from mark 9:38-41. "john said to him, "teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us." but jesus said, "do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. whoever is not against us is for us. for truly i tell you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of christ will by no means lose the reward." i'm not a christian (though i was raised) much less a bible thumper and i'm not going to get into a bible verse spat with you (you would undoubtedly win). despite not being a christian/religious, the above verse does carry weight with me.
Why is it that "black" people are always drawn into discussions about the legitimacy of the homosexual rights movement. To compare their struggles to ours is an insult to my ancestors. Don't do that.
1) Nobody said that. 2) Where did the whole "making fun of whites and asians" come from? Stay on topic. 3) Yes "Blacks" did go through hell, literally. Study our history. And don't limit your studies to the so called "black american", rather study the history of "black"/African people as a whole. Our intelligence was questioned, our civilizations destroyed, our children killed, our wives/daughters/sisters raped, our cultures destroyed, undermined or stolen from us, our continent severely weakened. I don't even know my ancestors names! I don't know where they were from or much about their lives before enslavement. This is by design. We were meant to be "robots". No past, no future, no hope. Simply another farm tool. Can homosexuals relate to this level of dehumanization?
Clutch, I respectfully ask you to remove this photo. What happened to this man is horrific and I think after going through such an ordeal he deserves to have some level of dignity in his death. Please can we let this man rest in peace. Thank you.
I'm not sure if your comment is directed at me in particular, but I think I made it clear that I am unequivocal about my stance on homosexuality. Jesus himself is the role model here: despite being God himself, he did not choose to condemn sinners. He instead became friends with them, showing them love when other religious people would not. From prostitutes to cheating tax collectors, he was always the friend of the outcast. He reserved his vitriol for the preachers and pastors of the day who preferred to cast stones at people who didn't measure up to their "standard". He was not tolerant of sin, but by choosing to love them, he drew them to him and they responded by repenting and were changed. That is how it should be. Sin is sin, but none of us has the power to change another person's heart by our words. Only God does. His commandment is to love people, not despise them for their actions.
I don't think anyone said homosexuals were equally discriminated as blacks. Bottom line is discrimination is discrimination and for any American whether they are white, black, asian, hispanic to approve of it is a disgrace.
There should be an option that states I don't care about anything anybody does unless it affects me directly.
If you simply did not care, then you would have no reason to partake in this thread; therefore there would be no reason for me to include it as a poll choice.
there is comparison because three groups have been discriminated in America. minorities, women, and homosexuals. Nobody is talking about the severity of the discrimination but the fact that there is discrimination. That is what this topic is about. Any and all discrimination should not take place in modern society. Have we not learned our lesson?
Y'all take yourselves way too seriously. I accept them because I do not care what people do. Its like seat belt regulations, shouldn't be a law, if you die you die, your decision.
No not at all at you or any other Christian posting. My post was just a mini sermonette for all to read. In other words just an opinion. I know some of the Christians who post and they are just awesome Christians, very loving, honest and remarkably Christlike. YOu would be included there to me. As I read the posts it wasn't the content or point being made that stirred me to post (I didn't even want to open the thread all last week) I've changed how I feel when abortion and homosexuality are brought up in D&D, Christians try so hard to love that we lose sight of the high cost of grace. The cost to Jesus. His love for those who sin should be known without omitting the sin of man. IMO many non Christians have a religious right frame of reference concerning Christians- judgmental and self righteous. If I post- homosexuality is a heinous sin! It's a fight, I see no profit in that. Hypocrisy is a heinous sin. Agree? But after 25 years of loving people who are the worst of sinners and explaining sin and forgiveness it is disheartening to think that the best response to abortion or homosexuality is either God is love or God hates fagots. Both are extremes to me. I disagree completely with Joel Osteen that people are inherantly good and sin is a bad word to use. I also disagree with the self righteous money grabbers who are out there preaching hate against muslims and homosexuals. To the OP- I love men alot.
