Agreed. Take Harden completely out of the discussion. The idea that FVV has “it” when it comes to winning is….strange to me. Like you said during the Raptors finals run, while he was probably the 3rd or 4th best player for them in the Finals series, he was probably their 2nd worst overall rotation player during that whole playoff run. He was absolutely awful their first 2 and half rounds that year.
Sometimes the right man for the time is the wrong man (or woman) long term. I think signing FVV to a large(ish) long term deal would be terrible for the organization. Fred would need to be passing the torch and moving into a vet presence type of player with a contract that aligns. He obviously is capable of great games every once in awhile but we need Ime and Stone to be honest with themselves about where he’s headed and what the team needs moving forward to take that next step.
The problem is that there isn't anyone to pass the torch to. And there isn't really anyone in free agency that is an obvious answer. So you have to pick up his option ore re-negotiate whether you think he is the long-term option or not. You could get Tre or Tyus Jones to agree to the MLE and then try to trade FVV. That would be the best case scenario, becuae if you just didn't pick up FVV's option and renounced all rights to our own free agents, you wouldn't free up much more than the MLE anyway. So, there is really not much option but to keep FVV around for one more year at a minimum.
Reed and Amen can handle the PG duties, it will be a transition but the sooner it happens the better off we are. DD
No, we have a talent problem and an irrational CF fan problem. He’s clearly the whipping boy for the CFers who don’t care we are over vastly overreaching in the regular season.
To me, the question objectively is about Sengun first, and Jalen second. Does the organization believe that they can win with those two guys. If so especially with Sengun, you'll be needing to put established players around him to elevate his game. He is a player that is basically your point guard. You don't need a true PG like a Nash, Stockton, CP3, etc. if Sengun is elevated to his potential. Then Jalen.... do we believe in him to put the ball in his hands more and more. They are paying these guys to be "the man" moving forward at least the next couple seasons so it would seem as though Stone was already making that statement that would indicate FVV more or less "passing the torch." Thats why the double big lineup is really telling that with this playoff run, I do think the team really wants to play this out, and know what they have in him... because it seems obvious to me that the guy is not really a full time center. He's more of a Pau Gasol type of big man who if you are wanting to maximize, you probably put him in the high post alot alongside another big who frees you up on D as well to makeup for your weaknesses defending the paint. If you are going to keep Sengun long term, maybe instead of investing big money in a high dollar PG, maybe that money is better served acquiring a big man to play alongside Sengun.... I dunno. Either way, I don't see FVV as the big money in the lineup that serves their long term interests. I'd LOVE to keep him around the play more of a Derrick Fisher type of role, but it seems obvious to me that it is time to pass the torch as the guy with the ball in his hands late in shot clocks with the responsibility to create shots for himself or others.
shooting 38% from the field. I was referencing Jamal Murray, not Dejonte. We’ll agree to disagree about my list.
Sunk cost fallacy. The more FVV sucks, the more I hear how great he is. Have you actually looked at the numbers or really watched the play often? FVV is a small guard that gets destroyed by other guards. He was brought in to RENT our cap. He's a $43M albatross, not an all-star. He's someone we have to make excuses for too often. Your support of him is essentially, he's better than nothing. Yes, playing with a PG is better than playing without one. If he was on the vet min like Tyus Jones, we would only complain about his usage. FVV is a 1 for 9 or 2 for 12 guy, not a winner. He has played like hot garbage and it has cost us games. JG is young and energetic and learning how to shoot better. What's FVV's excuse? Sometimes in life we are just wrong. It's OK to admit that Stone and Udoka screwed this one up and you can fix it this offseason. It isn't the first or last time that both has screwed **** up. My hope is that they are not so myopic that they rush headlong with the same thinking that has got them here and sign him to a new contract. You can trade his expiring team option, not a new contract. Welcome John Wall 2.0 if we're that stupid. Imagine losing Bari and Tari because we just had to resign FVV.
Lol… John wall 2.0? The hate is absurd. This is only the second year of FVV and he has a team option next year. Folks need something to complain about, even when we are exceeding the vast majority of expectations.
Amen for sure. May need a little Reed insurance through free agency or trade. If FVV is starting next year you have already punted the season.
You are 100% correct, but Udoka is stubborn as heck and loves FVV and he’s his floor general. Ime values him as integral to our success and he will be extended at about a 3mm discount to his current contract. Rockets very happy with FVV!
You obviously didn't read about his next contract in my post or you wouldn't have tried to explain his current contract to me. Give him more time, we only paid him $43M. He is still figuring things out. What a joke.
It's really not a Fred problem. He's good off ball. He's willing to be off ball, has openly stated so. If he comes in and just spams Sengun PnR > this has to be Ime's idea at this point because Fred has been willing to do anything when asked. So many players have been blamed for the offensive problems, it's so freaking obvious all of you are right to an extent. Which also means it's a SYSTEMIC problem. Here is the list of players shooting worse (TS% than last season): Jabari Smith Cam Whitmore Alperen Sengun (Career worst) Fred Van Vleet (Career worst) Steven Adams (Career worst) Jock Landale (Career worst) Jasean Tate (almost Career worst) In addition, Jalen Green is taking a much higher volume of 3's and making more and still, he barely improved his TS%. Reed Sheppard is way below expectations. HOUSTON ROCKETS 27th in TS% this season 24th in TS% last season We are regressing as a whole team despite being more skilled offensively. You can nitpick all you want about how is this guy's mistake or that guy's problem Ime's fault, but you're in denial about the big picture. This is systemic, stop going around in circles fooling yourself.
It is systemic. 49 wins got the 8th seed last year in the West. The top of the league other than OKC got worst. Our 50 games won is not as impressive as everybody seems to think.
2 seasons ago, the NBA Champ won 53 games. Winning 50 or so games with Amen, Sengun, Tari, Green, and JSJ being in the rotation is massive. The Rockets are likely getting about 10 wins in internal improvement this season. The Rockets get another season of 10 wins in internal improvement, the Rockets are a 60-win juggernaut.
For me it's impressive to a good extent but a few things we have to take into consideration: - If you give Silas solid vets worth $80m per season and remove all tanking commands, he wins 35 easily last season. Honestly, even if you had just signed Adams, Uncle Jeff and Aaron Holiday we would have won 30+ games just because we're actually trying. - No matter who we hired, of course I expected to win half our games last season, that was not impressive to me as much as the development in fundamentals (defense especially). I had been saying since the start, the cores performance and stats are artificially deflated. Some natural inflation was always expected. - If we won 41 last season and we have literally the biggest core of young players in the NBA, we were always likely to have the highest amount of internal growth than practically any other team. All other teams with large young cores also made great strides whether their coach sucks (bickerstaff) or otherwise. This season 45-48 wins was highly likely again. That we're going to hit 50 wins is above expectations. That's not my problem at all. I think Ime has made defenders out of some guys that were never going to be defenders and that's priceless. I think he's done slightly better than expected and that's commendable. It's not a given. They might have hired a total moron. My problem is: it's looking like Udoka's offense is a hard ceiling with or without superstars. It's also looking like he doesn't know this and will force the cashing in of young players for superstars at a time when he is the reason their offensive stats are deflated. So we're taking the opinion of a bad offensive coach about acquiring offensive players just to bandaid the coach's weakness when we should be using our currency to bandaid our best players' weaknesses while they develop. If we play the warriors and Kerr cooks Ime again, that's a red alert for me. That would be two times losing against Kerr despite having the better team. I don't want to spend all our picks before finding out Ime is not the one. I hope he wises up though, would love to win it with him.
FVV isn't really a winning player, Udoka can't coach offense, Brooks needs to be traded, Sengun is a fake star, Green is inconsistent, Jabari is a bust and a role player. The Rockets sure have an awful lot of problems for the 4th best record in the league.
