No idea. That's not really what I was weighing in on. I think Simmons is a possible buy low candidate and if you can get him for John Wall you absolutely have to do it (though I don't think you can). I think, at worst, you can trade him later for a greater haul. There are a lot of teams that will give up a few picks and a few decent players for Simmons AT WORST. Whereas you can't give away John Wall under ordinary circumstances. So if that's the deal it's a no brainer. In the post you were responding to, however, I was just taking issue with the idea Ben Simmons was unwilling to play small ball 5 on a team in which playing small ball isn't even a thing. And I do think that that kind of role is what he'd be best suited for.
Yes. You weren't talking about that. You were implying he is is unwilling to play small ball five. I posited that there is no small ball being played in Philly. So we have absolutely no idea if that's a role he's willing to take on. He may even be more comfortable there. He certainly played power forward in college. I'm not in love with Ben Simmons. I worry that he's essentially a gigantic version of Russell Westbrook (that plays great defense). But you guys have gone off the rocker if you'd be unwilling to trade for him if John Wall is the center piece. OFF YOUR ROCKER! He wouldn't even need to be in our long term plans. We could just take him on like OKC has done with all of those guys and flip him later when the right deal comes along. And while there may not be the demand for Ben Simmons to get the haul Morey seems to want to command, there is NO WAY you can't get at least a few first rounders and a few serviceable players for him. Buy low. Sell high.
You are fixated on one of the three scenarios I laid out. Did you skip past the other two "What Ifs..."? The whole point of my post is that people think Ben Simmons will somehow change his colors and be willing to adjust who he is and how he plays going into his sixth year in the NBA. He's been coddled and gassed up for so long now that he's not going to change. There have been many articles and stories written about Simmons and his inner circle and how those same the people don't bother to push him. I'm not talking about his friends either; his own family (some of them are even his previous coaches and trainers) apparently don't see the need for him to change. Because if they did, he wouldn't be in this situation right now. If he continued to work hard and expand his game he'd be a top 5 player in the league right now, no contest. But after 6 years averaging basically the same amount of points, rebounds, assists, and steals....we have historical data and game tape that tells us this guy is not going to change. As for trading Simmons for Wall...I guess I'll answer that even though that wasn't something I brought up. Would I do it? Sure I would because Simmons has value you left--he's young and he's still an elite defender whereas Wall's prime days are gone.
I understand what you are saying and respect your opinion. I just look at it differently. The Rockets are going to struggle to get big name free agents the next handful of years. If I replace Wall with Simmons, I only have two years of Simmons under contract by the time Wall's deal is done and Simmons is still a positive player while Wall isn't even going to play. Even if Simmons is entitled and doesn't work on his offensive game, I can live with that if I have scorers and shooters around him. I know everyone WANTS him to improve as a shooter, but I am not assuming he will. The reality is that AS IS, he is still an elite defender that can guard 5 positions, he is a very good rebounder and passer and exceptional in transition. That is what I know he will bring to the table over the next 4 years. Having players like Wood and Porter (and likely Green early), the Rockets will need defenders that can guard multiple spots at a very high level. Further, Simmons ability to handle the ball and pass well is big in transition with Porter and Green... and Simmons also can run the offense as well if Green wants to cover off screens etc. The Rockets also need better rebounding, which Simmons brings. Simmons isn't a worthless player, he just isn't a franchise player like his talent says he should be and his salary and draft positioning. He doesn't work as hard on parts of his game that he should.... but he wouldn't be the leader or the top 2-3 scoring option on the Rockets.... he would be a super role player.... and if I can get rid of Wall and not pay a huge amount, I would add him every day of the week.... especially with Wood and Porter being free agents at the time the Wall contract expires.... it isn't like really good players are going to be clamoring to sign with the Rockets in a couple years. Wood and Simmons play off of each other very well from a skill set perspective.... then the Rockets have Green and Porter in the backcourt (Porter can shift to the 3 if needed)..... that is 4 spots in the starting line up filled potentially, with the the Rockets own pick next year and all of the NETS picks as well to add a 5th starter, which can be pretty good. How good is THAT Rockets team? Depends on Green and to a lesser extent, Porter.... but that is the case with or without Simmons.
Anyone that is counting on Simmons expanding his game is asking for a lot. He needs to be judged on who he is right now.... good and bad.
Totally agree with this post and I don't think Simmons will ever work hard enough to be an adequate outside shooter. What he can do is work with Calvin on his FT shooting.
Damn homie, Morey is down bad man. From Simmons for Harden, to Simmons for Wall. Sheeeshhh... finger inject to vein.
Morey holding out because he thinks there's better offers. Or other teams enamoured with the idea of flipping him. Don't over think: If Simmons was easy to move he'd be moved already. The long contract is not a good thing if the player is not worth that. Russ, Wall, they all have value, but just like Simmons but not to the level of compensation. As far as attracting other big names? Are other stars clamoring to play with Simmons. Does Embid? If you're a star scorer but not a pure shooter; like a Jimmy Butler / Donovan Mitchell / Jamal Murray type, would you go to a team with Simmons where the lane is clogged and Simmons wants to ball handle. Butler was on an Embid and Simmons team, and he was like: I'm out.
And my point is that it is irrelevant whether he is willing or not because even in that role he doesn't offer us enough to justify taking on the extra $80 mil in salary obligations. We're going to need all the cap space we can get in 2023/2024 to resign our young players and hopefully acquire some FAs to reasonable contracts that don't have the same questions surrounding them that Ben does. I think that's a no-brainer. And we really have no way to assume anything about Ben's trade value, as he has never been traded. All we know is that nobody has been willing to pay Morey's ridiculous asking price. If he continues to regress/stagnate over the next two years, his trade value will only decrease from here, that much is a given. So I don't think it wise to take on two extra max salary years for a player with serious flaws that has not improved over his 7 years in the league. We need to not turn the final three years of CP3's deal into a year of Westbrook, two years of Wall, and 3/4 years of Simmons. We should be trying to get out from these obligations, not extending them
[QUOTE="roslolian, post: 13712424, member: 34579"]Rookies are arguably better than Simmons cux they dont cost the max. Just a couple of people are saying Wall is better than Simmons that just an outlier opinion. These are just like any employee in a company they have their own intrinsic performance but then you weigh them by their salary. In Simmons case you weigh him by max player standards not average player cuz he will cost 30% of the cap. He also has attitude issues its not like you are getting a dog like Tucker, Siakam, Dennis Rodman etc you are getting a diva. A diva role player I mean I honestly havent seen that combination before.[/QUOTE] It definitely isn’t anywhere close to arguable at this point. Ben Simmons is a multi time all star and a near DPOY level player. Our rookies have yet to establish that they are even NBA caliber yet…because none of them have played a single NBA regular season game. I get that it’s in to be down on Simmons after his flameout and that we are excited about a promising start to our rebuild but this is just a ridiculous take…..like Kendrick Perkins/ Charles Barkley level ridiculous. There is still time to delete this.
The problem is Ben does not want to accept his role What is with good players losing their Knack in Philly? 1st Fultz now Simmons Rocket River
I think Simmons was planning to never be more than what he is now. Ironically both Simmons and Fultz are the only two #1 drafted players that couldn't lead their college teams to the NCAA tournament in the past 20+ years. That might have been a red flag in and of itself.
I just don't think at this time I'm willing to settle on a 27-year old Ben Simmons on a supermax in 2023 as being the best use of resources. Two years is an absolute eternity in the NBA, and so many situations can change during that time that I think it's foolhardy for Houston to give up assets and flexibility for a player that they already know is overpaid and probably can't be one of the three best players on a championship team without some significant improvements to his game and a total change in mindset. Having Ben Simmons under contract in 2023 might be the 70th percentile outcome, probably an above average result. Getting a worse player/getting shut out in free agency is way more likely. But I want to shoot for the moon. The Rockets didn't build the magical 2018 team by being willing to settle. They kept their cap clean for years, and took big swings over and over again to the point that people still make fun of them for missing out and being delusional (Bosh's iPad, anyone?). I want them to keep trying to trade for the next James Harden, not just being ok with bringing in Pau Gasol and Nene to build a competitive team. Injuries happen, coaching changes happen, and random chance happens. At 24, fresh off off his first all-star selection and three years away from free agency, did anyone every think that Kawhi Leonard would be anything other than a Spurs-lifer right next to Robinson/Duncan/Parker/Manu? Instead he's a Canadian national hero and we all know who Uncle Dennis is. After finally breaking through after struggles in adjusting to a new team and winning a championship as part of a big-3, did anyone imagine LeBron leaving that team high-and-dry (twice?). Remember the DeAndre Jordan kidnapping ordeal during free agency, and how LA had managed to lock up its entire core throughout their primes while embarrassing Mark Cuban? A little more than two years after that, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan were all playing on different teams. And could anyone imagine that the league MVP, leading the best team in his franchise's history, after having signed a 4-year extension, would be asking for a trade and refusing to play only two years later? I like Ben Simmons. But right now, if it's between Ben Simmons at the max vs. the mystery box, give me the mystery box 10/10 times, even if it's most likely all it has is a Landry's gift certificate and Luxury Tax Savings.
You make good points and I do not have really strong opinions on it.... I am in part playing the devil's advocate. FWIW I don't see any way Simmons ends up on the Rockets ..... also the Rockets getting Simmons would interfere with the Rockets getting the highest possible lottery pick in 2022. Green is obviously a major part of what the Rockets are trying to accomplish long term, but if they land a top 5 pick next season, that player will be as well assuming the Rockets draft well.... the 2022 draft is very strong on 3's-5's.
I don't think Simmons ever thought about it.... I think that he just expected to be better than everyone else based purely on his talent... like was the case until he was drafted. When he was at LSU he actually was out of shape, his coach at the time discussed that he would get winded as a 18 year old.... he also skipped practices and class... and he still was basically 20/12/5 and went #1 in the draft. He has never been outside his comfort zone or needed to push himself to be great. He always could rely on his athleticism, his length, his natural ball handling and natural court vision to be the best player on the court.... and now he cannot when it comes to scoring the basketball...... he lacks the practice skills, the personal skills (he has never had to overcome failure) and the desire to become great...... he has huge amounts of money, he has the girlfriend he wants, he has social media popularity and he has comfort... that is good enough for him and his half assed effort has always been good enough in the past, so he doesn't understand why it suddenly isn't anymore.
lol its not a mystery box....we already have players that are better at basketball than simmons plus they are all on on bargain deals....we dont need no freaking spectacular busts nor drama queens helping us....lololololol SMH
