Do Muslims Assimilate, Integrate into American society?

You are a petulant child who is very insecure with himself.

Try to tone down your emotional outburts a little bit.

 

"It was considered normal back then"

Great, so you agree, that Muhammad isn't some transcendent figure who ought to be a role model for 1 billion people to follow. He's just an ordinary political war lord leader of 7th century Arabia who happened to gain the greatest amount of traction.

I'm glad you finally agree with me Hydhypedplaya.

 

All Abrahamic faiths are inherently territorial and violent. We have the Enlightenment to thank for making Christianity and Judaism back the **** down and play nice. If we want secular strongmen to fix the problem in the ME, as they did the west, maybe we should stop removing them from power

If we were having this conversation in the 30s we would be talking about Catholicism, which also underwent a great deal of reform in the mid-20th century. It wasn't until the 60s that Jews were forgiven of collective deicide, and it shouldn't be lost on anyone the Church's role in the regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. I don't have the benefit of being able to ask my Italian and Italian-American ancestors what they thought in 1931, but I suspect weren't hostile to the "defense of the faith" that was used to justify the persecution of Jews and Communists.

 

I'm sorry that expletives offend you so easily.

 

Not necessarily true. The Biblical character known as Jesus is known to have preached against the union of religion and state. He believed more in a personal relationship with God. Muhammad is the complete opposite of that. Islam is inherently totalitarian. The founder explicitly wanted a world government abiding by Islamic law.

 

I don't think any Muslim has ever claimed that Muhammad was able to tell the future and that therefore he should have not engaged in practices that were considered normal during his time.

You act as if someone engaging in an act that was considered normal during their time somehow automatically dismisses anything they have accomplished. With your asinine logic, Thomas Jefferson should not be considered a founding father because he too also had sex with his slaves.

Do you really want to continue making ridiculous statements that continue to display your fallacious line of reasoning by attempting to draw moral equivalencies from events from over a thousand years ago to modern times? Be my guest, but it only shows your inability to construct a valid argument that is not inherently flawed with mindless rhetoric.

 

Except that the historical Jesus was a heretic who was advocated ideas that ran counter to the established government at the time. The crimes Jesus' was purported to have committed (blasphemy) would have been death punishable by stoning. Yet the story is that he was crucified, which is something that was reserved for rebels against the state.

 

I seriously don't understand this logic.

Do Muslims believe that Muhammad is the LAST messenger of God?

Thus that would entail that Muslims believe that Muhammad was DIVINELY INSPIRED.

It would be nice for the LAST MESSENGER OF GOD to receive a message from this God that hey maybe the practice of sex slavery is morally wrong or maybe having sex with a 9 year old is wrong because their frontal lobe isn't fully developed and therefore you are taking advantage of a child that does not have a fully rational mind that can make life altering decision on their own?

Millions upon Millions of Muslims all but worship the man literally. They ****ing sit down and pee because it's sunnah do do so because that's how the freaking prophet peed. You think they won't emulate some of his more draconian practices? Seriously you believe a Arabian warlord from the 7th century is the best role model?

What is hilarious is that there have been figures BEFORE Muhammad who conjured up in their own minds without the help of divine inspiration that sex slavery and slavery in general were wrong.

 

I think if you go through 200,000 years of mankind's existence, you'll find we all pretty much come from ancestors of rape and murder. Yay!

 

Yes, therefore Jesus was more of a transcendent figure who actually had the moral courage and will power to break draconian practices. GOOD FOR HIM. I just wish the last prophet of Allah was as much of a transcendent figure so we wouldn't have ****ing thousands of Muslims playing Caliphate in Iraq and Syria with their sex concubines that their right hands posses.

 

Hydhypedplaya, your only argument is that Muhammad was no more evil than any other warlord in the 7th century. Just think about that for a second.

 

Some guy killing and injuring 100 innocent people in the name of his religion tends to make people emotional against said religion.

 

I think they do. Look around at your childrens schools or your neighbors, there not terrorists, theyre not backwards. A lot of them are first generation americans too, theyre children will be even more assimilated

 

In Europe, this pretty much the exact opposite. The younger generation that was born and raised are becoming more radicalized.

I don't see this in the States, amongst my Muslim family members and family friends though. So anecdotally, I think it's fine and dandy here so far.

 

Oh, I see what you mean. Since you're divinely inspired you should be able to know what the future would entail and therefore not partake in actions you consider normal. If Muhammad could force God to tell him what the future entailed, surely the All Powerful, omnipotent traits ascribed to God in Islam would be flawed.

What's funny is it's people like you who lack basic reasoning skills and think that Qur'an is all about violence because they can read on an Islamophobic website about how verse 2:191 is all about how Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims. This is when context actually matters (even though for you, context and historical perspective is a baffling concept). Verse 2:191 has to do with a group of people who broke a truce and started attacking the Muslims. How come we don't see people like you talk about verse 2:177?

 

Except everything you are basing that you know Jesus was handpicked by a group of people 300 years after he lived.

 

Have you heard of a concept known as 'objective morality'? It's something that Islam claims to posses.

The issue isn't that I BELIEVE Muhammad was divinely inspired. It's that 1 billion people believe he was divinely inspired.

Like I stated before, there are millions of Muslim men who emulate Muhammad so closely, that they sit and pee because it's sunnah because Muhammad didn't stand and pee. That's how close many Muslims emulate this man. You don't think they would happen to stumble upon his more draconian practices?

 

Wahhabism came after the last Muslim invasion into the subcontinent.

If you read about Ibn Battuta, who traveled throughout N. Africa, the middle east, and Asia for 30 years in the 1300's, he paints a pretty good idea of what the Muslim world was like back then, and it is very different than today.

If Islam was always fanatical and extreme, there would be no Hinduism at all. Jews would not have survived at all in Palestine pre-Zionist movement.

Yes there was a lot of bad things done in the name of Islam, but as someone who doesn't have a personal bias in any of this, I don't see how Christianity was any more tolerant. People keep coming back to how Mohammed was this really bad guy who had sex slaves and such, but I don't know any Muslim who would agree with that so whether that is true or not doesn't seem to have impact on the people who worship him.

I don't think Islam is the fundamental issue, it's extremism and the need for cultural reform in that region inclusive of a bill of rights and equality for all. And that has to happen at the governmental level.

 

Sigh... What matters is what Christians perceive of Jesus today.

If Christians want to own sex slaves they can't point to Jesus, because in his lore, true or not true, he never owned one. If they want to order the execution of an adulterer they can't point to Jesus because Jesus never ordered the execution of a single sole according to their beliefs.

Millions of Muslims are content with Muhammad owning sex slaves and allowing sex slavery. Not only are many of them content with it but many of them believe because he allowed it, t's fine today. It's about what the belief system entails buddy.

 

Here is a question for you Hydhypedplaya. Using ONLY Islamic morality and not your natural empathy, is sex slavery allowed?