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Do Muslims Assimilate, Integrate into American society?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by txtony, Jun 18, 2016.

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Do Muslim want to assimilate or integrate into American society?

Poll closed Oct 16, 2016.
  1. I'm or was a Muslim. Yes.

    27.7%
  2. I'm or was a Muslim. No.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I'm not a Muslim. Yes.

    21.3%
  4. I'm not a Muslim. No.

    10.6%
  5. Just a simple Yes.

    31.9%
  6. Just a simple No.

    8.5%
  1. txtony

    txtony Member

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    This is a politicalfact article looking at Trump claim that Muslims don't assimilate. I don't care much for what Trump said, but the article is pretty good and is very relevant given Islamic Terrorists as a huge issue today and how that affect both Americans view of the Muslim community and their own view toward themselves.

    Full article at the Link


    By and large, Muslims want to embrace an American identity
    Several academic studies in the past decade have demonstrated that Muslims do indeed want to become integrated with mainstream American life.

    One of the major surveys is from 2011, when the Pew Research Center conducted telephone interviews with 1,033 Muslims in the United States, in English, Arabic, Farsi and Urdu.

    The researchers concluded that "Muslim Americans appear to be highly assimilated into American society."

    Specifically, 56 percent of Muslim Americans said that most Muslims coming to the United States today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Only 20 percent said most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, Pew found, while 16 percent said Muslim immigrants want to do both. (Incidentally, this is far different than the views of Americans at large; just 33 percent of Americans of all backgrounds told Pew that most Muslim immigrants want to adopt American ways, while 51 percent said Muslim immigrants want to remain distinct from the larger culture.)

    Notably, Pew found some striking similarities between the views of American Christians and American Muslims.

    For instance, about half of Muslims said they thought of themselves first as Muslim, rather than as American. A different Pew survey found a nearly identical fraction of Christians in the United States, 46 percent, saying they thought of themselves first as Christian, rather than as American. And near-identical percentages of Muslims and Christians said there was no conflict with being devout in their own religion and part of a modern society. (Sentiments about identity were similar among native-born and foreign-born Muslims, though those born after 1990 had a somewhat larger preference for a Muslim identity.)

    Jen'nan Ghazal Read, an associate professor of sociology and global health at Duke University, pointed to data from Pew and other sources showing similar rates of religious practice and beliefs among Muslims and Christians in the United States:


    [​IMG]


    Other evidence lines up with what Pew found.

    Selcuk R. Sirin, an associate professor of applied psychology at New York University's Steinhardt School of Culture, Education, and Human Development, found that even though 84 percent of 12-to-18-year-old Muslim Americans he studied had faced at least one act of discrimination in the previous year, most were comfortable with their "hyphenated identities" as both Muslims and Americans. "They seem to be pretty happy sitting on the hyphen," has said. "They don't feel the need to pick one over the other."

    Akbar S. Ahmed, a professor of Islamic studies at American University, found similar sentiments when he did fieldwork for the book "Journey into America," which spanned 75 cities and 100 mosques.

    "Muslims again and again told us that America is the best place in the world to be a Muslim," Ahmed said. "There are countless examples of Muslims who are assimilated and are completely American in every sense." He said that out of the roughly 2,000 personal interviews that comprised in his fieldwork, virtually all Muslims said that Muslims could be American.

    "So it is dangerous, irresponsible and incorrect for Trump to make statements like this and demonize the entire community," Ahmed said.

    Some experts have said that, if anything, that the trend is moving even more strongly towards becoming American.

    "In the 1970s and 1980s, Muslim leaders explicitly urged their people to avoid assimilating into the American mainstream and to withdraw into Islamic community centers, schools, and colleges," Boston College political science Peter Skerry wrote in 2013. "Since 9/11, Muslim leaders have shown a remarkable​ — ​and largely unnoted, or disbelieved ​— ​willingness to adapt to America. Indeed, these leaders have been busily reconstructing an anodyne version of Islam that conforms to the American civil religion."

    In other words, Skerry wrote, Muslim Americans today "are being reassured that it is permissible​—​even desirable​—​to have non-Muslim friends. And that it is okay to attend business lunches where non-Muslim colleagues drink alcohol. And that it is definitely a good idea to vote and get involved in civic and political affairs."

    Integration is a bigger challenge for Muslims
    So there's clear evidence that, contrary to what Trump suggests, Muslims are embracing American identity and values.

    At the same time, Muslim Americans by and large do not want to eradicate all traces of their religious and cultural heritage. This is similar to patterns seen in many immigrant groups that came to the United States beginning in the 1960s, when the nation's immigration system was oriented away from its previous focus on European immigrants and toward other parts of the world.

    Prior to the 1960s, most immigrants to the United States were white and Christian. They may have had national identities and cultural practices from their native country, but in most cases, they shared a religion and a race with the majority American culture. That meant it was easier for them to "assimilate," as Trump said, in the larger culture.

    But more recent waves of immigrants from Asia, India and the Middle East often have not shared the same race or religion as the American majority. So "assimilation" in the traditional sense has been a more complicated process. Assimilating to the mainstream American culture to the same degree as someone like Trump's ancestors did (his grandfather emigrated from Germany) would require Muslims to renounce their religion and become Christian. (And, obviously, they could not change their skin color or other physical features.)

    This has led scholars to shift away from the term "assimilation" and toward the term "integration."

    Sarah Lyons-Padilla, a research scientist at Stanford University, and Michele Gelfand, a professor at the University of Maryland, describe "assimilation" as part of an older "melting pot" model, while "integration" is more like a "mosaic."

    "We should not confuse integration with assimilation," Lyons-Padilla and Gelfand have written. "Integration means encouraging immigrants to call themselves American, German or French and to take pride in their own cultural and religious heritage."

    Research by Lyons-Padilla and Gelfand found that Muslim-Americans' support for "assimilation" — essentially, the melting-pot model — is low, statistically, at 1.76 on a 6-point scale. But they found support for the integration model to be quite high, at 4.96 out of 6.

    "This tells you that Muslim Americans don't want to assimilate into American culture at the expense of giving up their own cultural identity, but they are very interested in embracing both," Lyons-Padilla told PolitiFact.

    She added that psychologists generally see the integration model as a more practical one to aspire to. "Decades' worth of research shows that people fare best when they can have a foot in both worlds," Lyons-Padilla said.

    Substantial evidence confirms that Muslim Americans want to have an American identity and think that doing so is achievable. In fact, their preferences for self-identification mirror those of Christian Americans.

    The data shows that American Muslims want to be both American and Muslim. That's different than the widely recognized "melting pot" model where immigrants of generations past blended in fully in their new country based on a shared religion and culture. But the reality is that for most Muslim Americans, religion and race would have made it impossible for them to follow that course in the first place.
     
  2. fallenphoenix

    fallenphoenix Contributing Member

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    Do 70% of US Christians really pray every day? Seems high to me.
     
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    They've been assimilating for as long as they've been here. White guys (and girls) turning neo-nazi or even Al-Qaeda or ISIS themselves is spawned by the same self-isolation that these individual middle-easterners felt when they went Mikhail Rostov.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Some do, some don't. Those that don't often have more trouble fitting in to a society they refuse to fully embrace, no different from anyone else that stands apart from society.
     
  5. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    I would say for the most part yes

    and a definite yes compared to a lot ungrateful migrants in Europe
     
  6. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Can't speak for the rest, but I do
     
  7. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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    I came to the United States in 1999 from Pakistan and my first thought was, “How can I serve this great country?” In 2000, as many migrants to this country have done, I joined the United States military. I served in the U.S Army’s 1st Cavalry Division and in the Army’s elite Special Forces.

    When I was deployed into harm’s way and my family remained stateside, I was diligent to honor the flag and American values, to preserve our way of life and our constitutional freedoms. America’s enemies were my enemies, and still are.

    My jihad (struggle) was to stand up for my faith and the citizens of this great nation.
    I am personally offended by those who attempt to further their personal or political agenda by mischaracterizing my religion.

    My name is Hanif Sangi, and I am an American, an immigrant, a Muslim, a U.S Army veteran who served in combat, and a recipient of the Bronze Star for heroism.


    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_573e0835e4b0646cbeec7524
     
  8. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני
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    Yes, but to be fair, most of the US Muslims I know are doctors, lawyers, IT managers, professors and business people. This is not the same in Germany or the UK, where I encountered pretty matter-of-fact anti-semitism.
     
  9. txtony

    txtony Member

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    Same here concerning US Muslims. Haven't been to Europe so can't comment. Asian Muslim is... well in China they are so well assimilated, they are Chinese.
     
  10. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    should probably ask Hakeem this question.
     
  11. s land balla

    s land balla Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    Assimilation by immigrants in America is largely a product of socioeconomic status and even more so, a grasp of the English language.

    South Asians represent the largest percentage (34%) of Muslim-Americans and they are in the top percentile of both of these categories (socioeconomic status thanks to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, and grasp of the English language thanks to British colonialism of the Subcontinent).

    African-Americans represent the second largest percentage (25%) of Muslim-Americans and obviously are an established, assimilated part of the American fabric.

    That covers half of Muslim-Americans right there.

    So to answer your question - yes.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member
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    Some do, some don't, I voted don't just because this is stupid and general.

    DD
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    I would say no because Hussein has made America ungreat.
     
  14. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Why is this just about the US and not western culture? Assimilation when a group is such a small part of the population is hard to judge. You won't find anyone angry about BW3 serving alcohol during Ramadan. But with far higher population that happens to restaurants and is happening now in europe.

    So why is the question just about europe and if it is because they don't assimilate in europe what is the difference in the muslims outside of higher populations?
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    They do assimilate better in the USA than they do in Europe, which simply has to do with the fact that the USA chooses whom they let in to a much higher degree than Europe does. Europe basically gets a lot of the uneducated, and often criminal, backwards-oriented ones, whereas the USA chooses to let doctors, lawyers, athletes in.

    And yet, even in the USA, Muslims do not assimilate nearly as well as, e.g., East Asians. Not even close. That has to do with the all-encompassing nature of Islam.
     
  16. txtony

    txtony Member

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    Meant to be a general question and about people perception. Should have added the word. "Do Muslims generally want to...". Maybe even "Do you think Muslims generally want to...".
     
  17. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    It depends on what Muslims you are talking about. The ones who only practice the good parts of the Qur'an or the ones who follow all of the Qur'an. There are many good Muslims who only follow the good teachings of their religion and the others who follow everything. The ones who truly practice Islam follow the entire Qur'an and happen to be the ones who practice jihad and want a caliphate with sharia law. These people do not assimilate they want everyone else to assimilate to their teachings or die. The people who only follow selective "good" parts of this "religion" probably make good citizens.

    Source: the Qu'ran & the Hadith (look it up if you do not believe me).
     
  18. txtony

    txtony Member

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    Simply because it's about the US and Muslim in the US.

    I looked up the %. You are right that Muslim are a small % in the US relative to some EU. ~1% of the US population (3.3M) with projection of reaching 2% by 2050 (8M). ~5-6% of the total population in UK, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, and Switzerland. 8% in France. 4% in Italy, 2% in Spain. All other are < 1%.

    I don't have a clue if % of the population matter that much. My guess is local laws, cultures, opportunity, job and education play a bigger part.
     
  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    change it to western culture, and then lets redo the poll then. I will vote no based on 50% of UK muslims thinking homosexuality should be illegal.


    Well that is quite scary. Orlando and Boston were done by NEET Muslims that were basically second generation American Muslims and immigrated not based on their own merit but on their successful relatives. They found themselves sans education and poorly employed. So if s land balla is correct then as soon as socioeconomic drops (which can obviously happen in a single generation) assimilation will also drop?
     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Until these terrorist groups came headliners with social media recruiting networks and Inspire magazin, no one would ask this question.

    Crush ISIS and it's recruiting/publishing arm and you will solve the domestic issue.
     

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