Do big men now get less touches than big men in past eras?

I checked some stats. Kareem averaged 18.1 shot attempts per game for his career. Hakeem averaged 17. Ewing averaged about 16.

Shaq was averaging somewhere around 19 shots per game, until the elimination of the illegal D rule. His average immediately fell to about 14 shots/per game. Bumped up to 15 for one season, and has fallen ever since.

Gasol and Yao are down around 13 shots/game or less. That's about the same level as Shaq was getting after the illegal D rule got eliminated. It looks like the illegal D rule is taking away somewhere around 5 shots per game for quality post players. That's shot attempts and doesn't include missed shots where a player is fouled. The rule change might be costing Yao anywhere from 5-10 points per night.

 

He's not talking offesive 3 seconds rule he's talking deffensive 3 seconds rule

 

Exactly. Howard nor Yao deserve any more touches than what they get. They both have huge holes in their games that allow them to be taken out easily. I see it hasn't stopped duncan or even shaq from being really good. Duncan will high or low post you to death. Shaq will still just overpower people. Yao is slow and howard doesn't have a jumper.

 

If Yao played during the illegal defense era..he would dominate...no doubt..look at Rik Smits,,, he average about 17 to 18 points in his career with that kind of frame....

 

Pretty much the way things are set up these days, favors quicker big men rather then stronger ones, which is why you are seeing more power forwards masquerading as centers.

 

I've always hated Stern because he monkeys with the rules. Changing the 3 pt line changing the illegal defense / 3 sec. rules etc. The number of possessions per game has decreased significantly since the 70s. Big men are no longer as big a part of offenses because it's harder to get inside position and get a good shot.

I'm probably biased because of Dream, but I think that dominant big men make the NBA more exciting because you get a better inside out game (which leads to more 3s). I have a feeling that Stern won't go back to the illegal defense of yore.

 

I think even more important is the way personal fouls have changed over the years. Sometime in the late 90's and more pronounced in the last 5 years or so is that the level of contact a defender gets away with on the perimeter versus guarding a post player grew hugely disproportionate. You are allowed to really lean, body check, hang all over post players now but you can't touch a perimeter slasher. Back in the 80s and earlier 90s this disparity wasn't so large.

I wonder if the league has "hockey assists" numbers? Theoretically these should be soaring for the good offensive big men in the new more relaxed illegal defense days.

 

Why does "deserve" mean anything? Yao deserves to have a lot of touches because he is damn efficient once he gets the ball down low. But he is hampered in part by the rule (in part also by his own physical limitations) to get the ball more easily, which is the whole point of this thread.

Shaq's scoring opportunity did drop after the rule change. See my post on the first page. If Shaq was affected by the rule, I am pretty sure every big man is. People used to point to Howard and say he still got the ball a lot. Look what happened in the playoffs. Teams begin to focus on stopping him from getting the ball and his touches drop.

The fact is, given today's rule, when defense is focused on preventing a big man from getting the ball, they can, no matter how athletic the guy is. Back in the days, you can't do that when the offense spread the floor. Defenders were required by rule to follow their men to the perimeter. They cannot cheat to do weak side help for the lob pass. Seattle did that to Hakeem and was quite successful even though it was actually illegal. If Hakeem played with today's rule, you think teams wouldn't have blatantly done what Seattle were doing?

I am not saying that Hakeem would not be a dominant center if he played with today's rule. But I am pretty sure it would have affected his game.

 

There aren't any great big men in today's game.

 

Bingo.

 

Rik Smits and Yao's frames are completely different. Yao outweighs him by something like 50-60 pounds. There's been nobody in the league's history with Yao's size that moves like he does outside of Shaq (and Shaq in his prime was an even greater freak of nature than Yao in terms of size, quickness, and mobility).

 

The whole point of this thread is whether today's rule limits the greatness of big men. Saying there is no great big men does not address the question whether it is because of the rule.