I don’t know that violence is an effective motivating force in this country, and paltry when compared to the heavy hand of money. The nihilism is justified IMO. I find your posts to be interesting because they do present a different viewpoint. So I would ask you - what is the far left’s best strategy given the heavy hand of money, to which they have no access? You seem opposed to the idea of accepting the left’s paltry gains with centrist/moderate democrats. Yet I struggle to see a viable second option in the US political system. I’m a realist and sometimes you’re screwed by a system you can change. You’ve had some spirited exchanges with Astros123 about whether leftists/muslims should have behaved differently in the presidential election. I am genuinely curious - what is a realistic path forward in your mind? Or perhaps your viewpoint is that the far left needs to understand that the paltry gains from Dem moderates (over what MAGA republicans are offering) don’t move the needle, so the far left might as well mobilize and protest the Dems until they can force some change (because presumably Republicans would keep winning).
@RB713 @strosb4bros @Scarface281 @cml750 @Salvy @Rileydog we know that d&d posters here rock to this breh’s rendition
Aw man, I was going to come in and say clearly yes, @fchowd0311 , but he beat me to it. Well played, sir. The solution is to set up systems that do not rely on capturing votes and winning elections. Nothing stops the left from building worker co-ops, setting up communes, pooling resources to provide each other with food and shelter and medicine. The issue is, if they do that, they don't get to punish the people who disagree with them. They would be forced to watch their ideas succeed or fail on their own merits. America, as it currently exists has no rules against people paying more taxes, providing more services, etc. The left is free to be as left as they want.
Second only to Goatuve. I was thinking of you, strosb4bros, tinman and one other guy whose name escapes me when I made this post. You guys rail non stop about woke democrat leftists, but can’t seem to identify any person or groups of people who support the ideas you claim that do. With the vigor with which you attack this straw man, I would think you could come up with something. I would hate for you to realize that you are angry at an imaginary group of people when, judging from your posts (and those of the folks mentioned above), one would have thought that there is an easily identifiable “woke leftist” mob ready to take over this country. Even the lone woke leftist in CF, good ol fchowd, seems to acknowledge that the woke leftist cohort is relatively small and politically powerless under our current system.
What are you even trying to do? The left is woke, the left and wokeness go hand in hand. Every single woke topic we can discuss is a topic the left favours. Every single one.... Does that mean that every single Democrat will agree with every single woke point of view? Not necessarily but I can assure you that every single Democrat will highly likely vote against anything that isn't woke. No, the woke left is not relatively small. I do think the woke left is losing popularity thou, I'm okay with that. Once we stop talking about dumb $hit like dudes in girls locker rooms we can start focusing on serious things. I will always vote for the party that is serious. I don't like that The U.S basically only has one party for the people as of right now and the other party is filled with a bunch of r****ds trying to bring down Trump instead of showing me they can do better in 2028. Show me your plan for better immigration control, less inflation, better housing programs, better incomes, better tax policy, stronger and stricter regulations for countries highly dependant on us and the list goes on. If Democrats stfu about Trump I promise I'd actually stop and hear what they have to say. But since they have attached themselves to wokeness and its what they stand on and stand by to defeat MAGA I will continue to call them what they are....
It's fun to be naive and delusional. Not only do they exist in large numbers, they flaunt their institutional numbers through braindead celebrities, politicians, branding and policies. I don't get caught up in terminology like woke, but encouraging illegal immigration under the pretense of "empathy" and "free boarding if you just make it" (which leads 60 women and kids dead in a sweltering truck after a 6 month journey, sex trafficking, getting their hopes up etc) is criminal. They viciously attack women who spoke up about men in womens sports (and had institutional power to promote it), demonize Jewish people as colonizers while muslim colonization of the MIddle East, Arab slave trade etc is all erased, and worst of all... justify violence against innocents as a precursor to oppressed vs oppressors. They cheer on the healthcare CEO killer (he was never denied a health claim), Hamas after Oct 7 (before consequences came out) , encourage armed resistance when they aren't under attack as free speech. But no free speech for conservatives... The leftists were out of control, attacking anything outside their artificially constructed narrative as misinformation and going after people at college campuses, online, soccer moms, etc, while conservatives were open to discussion and used logic to make their points. Led to an easy victory for Trump in November. The question is... will they learn?? You're clearly playing dumb here, so I won't go into more details.
I'm not advocating for violence. I'm advocating for the Democrat party to create a villainous group for Americans to hate the same way the GOP does but the target going from trans, migrants, Muslims, urban minorities etc to landlords and corporate executives. My belief in a winning strategy can be summed up with this: Trans people aren't your landlords raising your monthly rent after every lease renewal. They aren't your corporate executive that does cyclical layoffs to aim for that bonus and stock option they would be rewarded with if they reduce costs to satisfy shareholder return on investment. De4mocrats have a big problem with capitulating to right wing framing. They use terms like "border security" acting as if the immigration crisis isn't a human exploitation crisis but rather a security crisis. This creates a situation where most voters will see this and say "so the GOP was right the entire time and you are just now in hindsight correcting your error..." okay so why should I vote for the "we were wrong in hindsight and our opposition was always right from the very beginning" party. That the problem with capitulating to right wing framing. The general public will then just assume the Democrats are late to the "correct positions" which leads to the general public believing that Democrats are just feckless status quo operatives in a time when millions of Americans are struggling to pay bills for the basics(food, shelter, energy, education, healthcare). Democrats have no issue gaslighting millions of Americans struggling to pay rent that the economy is improving while fearing telling Americans that the fear of migrants and trans people is fake scapegoating tactics when 99.9% of Americans have never had a negative interaction with a undocumented immigrant or a trans person, It's much easier to convince someone that trans people and migrants are scapegoats than convincing them the economy is heading towards the right direction. Their personal experiences contradict the messaging of Democrats. Americans need a villain now because they are being spread thin with their expenses for basic needs. They need an entity to blame and the GOP mastered that desire with scapegoats. Corporate Democrat establishment politicians can't turn the concept of landlords and corporate executives as a pariah class of leachers because they understand that they are a part of that class also. So they turn into this entity that stands for nothing besides self preservation of their status.
You seem to have skipped over my original post and resumed your vigorous attack on a straw man. Let us try again, but I will go slowly this time. In my OP, I identified numerous issues that you and others claim are supported vigorously by the woke left. Not one issue. Not two issues. But basically all of them. You aren’t upset at a “woke leftist” who says nah man, I don’t think trans men->women should compete against women. Are you? Or a “woke leftist” who says we should go ahead and deport illegals who are criminals. You believe that basically the entire Democratic Party is full on woke (“attached themselves to wokeness” is the phrase you use above) and for each and every issue I identified, they are woke as hell and fully support illegal criminals, trans sports, and on and on … right? Well, I’m simply pointing out that you live in a fantasy world with imaginary armies of woke leftists who want to pound you with trans people in sports and illegal immigrants. “Every single Democrat will vote against anything that isn’t woke” - you seem to have a problem with basic ideas. Here are the things many democrats voted against: - tax breaks for the uber rich - siding with Russia and Putin - dismantling science and the environment (NIH and EPA) - authoritarian Presidency infringing on congressional powers and having no respect for the law or judiciary - firing and rehiring federal employees - crashing the stock market - stupid tariff wars. Is being anti tariff war a “woke” thing? I could go on forever. It seems to me that “anything that isn’t woke” really means Donald Trump. In other words, you cannot process how someone might flatly reject the person and platform of Donald Trump, so they are basically wokies … basically the millions and millions of people who voted against Donald Trump are all “woke leftists”. There is no such thing as a moderate republican, centrist Democrat, left leaning Democrat. Nope, it’s Trump supporters vs wokies. Have I explained the point of this thread in clear enough terms for you?
I dont play dumb, not one bit. Let’s just take one issue - trans men->women competing in women’s athletics. Let me ask you, what percent of US population support this? What percentage of Democrats support this? Now do the same for Democrats who oppose deportation of illegals who are criminals. We could go on and on for each of the issues I identified. My point remains the same - there aren’t hoards of people, nevermind democrats who support these things. The ones who do are loud/vocal/visible, and you guys love to do nothing more than moan and groan about “wokeism”. Look no further than the posts in D&D. Among you, Salvy and Tinman, “wokeism” occupies 75 percent of your posts and thoughts … because you believe 50 percent of the voting population support these issues.
I like your proposed winning strategy on messaging. But doesn’t your last point indicate that it isn’t a feasible strategy because landlords and corp executives are supported by the donor class who run the system? If that were the messaging, Democrats policies would need to focus on housing and wages, which might as well be third rail issues for the donor class, right?
Yes hence why a large part of the left in America are nihilists. A large part of the leftist movement in America believe we are in a hopeless situation. It's rather depressing.
Just finished it, still very skeptical to the concept as a driving factor, particularly the focus on politics. It left me with a ton questions and holes I'd need filled. (@ Jontro) Off the bat he focused on India, their fertility rates have been in an absolutely linear drop since the 70's. Heavy social media / internet entertainment use (for the masses) has only been going on for roughly 15 years. China was another significant focus, it's hard to line that theory up to the macro data. Fertility rates have been consistent 1995-2020. The huge dip began, like India, in the 70's. I can definitely buy social media and digital entertainment causing further issues here, and potentially becoming a greater issue in the current or near future, but as for the last 10-20 years, when the fall in fertility rates are still mainly amongst teenagers, and with the focus of political divide as the core issue, it's just a hard sell for me on multiple levels. I can't imagine teenagers caring about politics more than sex. Not in a million years. I do find the thought of right wing guys all turning to incels with lefty dudes being absolute p***y magnets completely hilarious though, and if we're going to live in a dystopian future, that's the best one. Ultimate political coercion tool. Support AOC or die a virgin. We're going to have M4A wrapped up by 2030 fellas lol
