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DJT Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by seemoreroyals, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Yes all of those claims have been debunked. Again, we solve this by not listening the ramblings of a egomaniac narcissist who can't accept reality.
     
  2. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Not gonna click on it, but "here is the evidence dot com" seems totally legit.
     
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  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    At best, it's a rough draft no one wants to edit. Sydney Powell probably killed some trees printing out all those articles.

    The Trump effort has apparently become to create the impression that “so many cases must signal something,” Hasen said.

    Hasen said that the Trump strategy has clearly become “all about flooding the zone with s***,” as former Trump adviser Steve Bannon once described his political strategy to overwhelm political opponents by swamping them with so much information it’s impossible to sort through it all.

    Trump’s own 46-minute video he released on December 3, which PolitiFact debunked point by point, was a good example.

    And there are echoes here of disinformation efforts in other countries. Peter Pomerantsev, a senior fellow at the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University, said that, in Russia, claims by the government “are just thrown online or spewed out on TV shows more to confuse than to convince."

    Pomerantsev’s book, “This is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality,” details how in Russia, “all information becomes … merely a means to undermine an enemy, as a tool to disrupt, delay, confuse, subvert.”

    Overwhelming one’s opponents with an onslaught of allegations has a single goal, he wrote. "The effect ... is to leave the mind exhausted and confused,” he wrote.

    Yet even a perfunctory review of most examples offered up by Trump and his allies as “evidence” quickly reveals that most have already been debunked and dismissed in court.

    One popular claim among conspiracy theorists was that election officials in Fulton County, Georgia told independent monitors to leave the vote-counting room and then brought illegal ballots in suitcases out from under a table.

    This claim was based on a lack of understanding of how the process worked. State officials running the election, who are Republicans, explained how there was one group of workers opening mail ballot envelopes and verifying they had been properly cast, and another taking the ballots out of the proper bins and running them through counting machines.

    The first group of workers left, as did some monitors, but officials from the Secretary of State’s office observed the entire time and no one was ever told to leave. There were no suitcases.

    As quickly as one allegation is checked, however, 10 more pop up in its place. Most times they are not new, but rather they are allegations that have already been debunked and dismissed in court, but they are presented as somehow new.

    For example, the website hereistheevidence.com purports to have an incredible amount of proof of election fraud, with over 1,300 entries, all of them with a listed “source.”

    But the site is not a serious compendium of legitimate evidence of anything. It is a hopelessly redundant, badly organized, terribly sourced jumble. Take the first 10 examples of so-called “illegal votes.”

    The first is a claim that in Georgia there were more than 143,000 votes that violated state law. This is part of a lawsuit filed Dec. 4 by Trump himself in the Superior Court of Fulton County. Democrats have filed a response to this noting the “widespread acknowledgement that no fraud occurred” in the Georgia election, as attested to by three separate recounts of the vote.

    The second claim is that there were more than 42,000 people in Nevada who voted twice. This claim has already been rejected and dismissed by state District Court Judge James Todd Russell, a ruling affirmed unanimously by the Nevada Supreme Court.

    The next five claims are all part of a lawsuit already dismissed by U.S. District Judge Timothy Batten. Many of these claims rely on assertions made by Matt Braynard, who led the data effort on Trump’s 2016 campaign until he was let go in April of that year. Braynard worked at the Republican National Committee around 15 years prior to that as a data staffer.

    Braynard has presented his assertions in a 42-minute YouTube video. Harvard professor Stephen Ansolabehere studied Braynard’s work and concluded in a 49-page report that "there is no scientific basis for reaching any of these conclusions." In addition, when Braynard testified before a panel of Georgia lawmakers, state Rep. Bee Nguyen, a Democrat from Atlanta, went through a list of individuals who Braynard had claimed voted illegally and debunked them in real time, showing how these people had, in fact, voted legally.

    And the next three claims after that on hereistheevidence.com follow the same pattern. They are all allegations that were included in the lawsuit in Nevada referenced above — the one that claimed 42,000 double votes — that was dismissed by Judge Russell and the Nevada Supreme Court.

    By contrast, the list of cases compiled by Democratic lawyer Marc Elias at DemocracyDocket.com presents all of the litigation in each state with links to every court filing and judicial ruling in all 60 cases.

    While keeping track of all these court cases and the many filings in each is overwhelming, there is a logic to it that can be followed. It is orderly and comprehensible.

    The claims made by Trump and his supporters are so disorganized and non-linear that they border on incoherence. But that seems to be the point.

    No election goes off without a hitch, and in the internet era, technology can compound some of the usual mistakes. But there’s a big difference between Democrats conspiring with Dominion Voting Systems to “hack” election and delete Republican votes and the kind of minor, easily detectable and correctible data-entry accidents and software glitches that complicate any computer-based enterprise.

    The first is what Trump & Co. darkly speculate, without evidence, to have taken place in close-run states.

    The second is what actually happened.

    Consider the example of Antrim County, Mich., a Republican stronghold where unofficial results initially showed Biden beating Trump by roughly 3,000 votes — a sharp reversal from Trump's performance there in 2016. Trump supporters flagged the discrepancy. Tweets about it went viral. Soon conservatives such as Ted Cruz were calling for investigations and alleging that maybe the same election-management software used in Antrim County (Dominion Voting Systems) had screwed up the statewide count.

    Experts eventually figured out what went wrong: An election worker had “configured ballot scanners and reporting systems with slightly different versions of the ballot, which meant some results did not line up with the right candidate when officials loaded them into the system,” according to the New York Times. By then local officials had already caught and corrected the error — even before another round of review conducted by Republican and Democratic “canvassers” that is designed to catch such mistakes. In the revised count, Trump beat Biden by roughly 2,500 votes.

    But these facts haven’t deterred Trump allies from seizing on other, unrelated examples of routine tech-related errors to falsely insinuate some sort of nefarious conspiracy involving Dominion. In Oakland County, Mich., election workers mistakenly counted votes from the city of Rochester Hills twice, according to the Michigan Department of State — then spotted and fixed their error. An incumbent Republican county commissioner kept his seat as a result.

    “As a Republican, I am disturbed that this is intentionally being mischaracterized to undermine the election process,” Tina Barton, the clerk in Rochester Hills, said in a video she posted online. “This was an isolated mistake that was quickly rectified.”

    Oakland County used software from a company called Hart InterCivic, not Dominion.

    Meanwhile in Georgia, glitchy
    Entire article https://news.yahoo.com/the-2020-ele...re-all-the-facts-that-prove-it-184623754.html
     
  4. foh

    foh Member

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    If you are so against a victim's mentality, it's weird that you would support a sore loser who was crying about being a victim of the deep state for four years and running.

    By the way winner vs loser mentality is not good for psyche. It leads to suicide and other extreme life's calamities - this is per social science anyway.

    The GOP had time to ensure voting integrity before the election and now after it. They won't push for it (seriously), because of the 50+ losses Trump suffered in the judicial branch (that he was so proud to stuff with a bunch of conservative judges in anticipation of losing the election.)
     
  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    #Me3

    -Case dismissed-

    *BANGS GAVEL*
     
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  6. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Contributing Member

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    Hell, he accused Cruz of stealing Iowa in the primaries.......if he loses it has to be stolen, you cant reason with a narcissist
     
  7. bobrek

    bobrek Person, woman, man, camera, TV
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    Screenshot_20210122-165836_Google.jpg
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Unfortunately at this point the only people who should read this are the people who won't.
     
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  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Yes that's why it was a tragedy. He measured things by how they benefitted him personally and because he is very limited in his thinking was unable to consider larger considerations.

    There were two very telling points during his second year when he had the chance to really do something that could've changed things. While Trump's supporters loved the Wall overall the Republican Congress didn't and that's why even when they controlled both the House and Senate they didn't pass Wall funding. Pelosi offered him a deal that Democrats would help him pass his wall funding if he agreed to help DACA recipients. He turned down that deal because he didn't want to help DACA as that was an Obama program and instead ended up taking funds meant for military quality of life projects to pay for his wall and even there far less than what he would've gotten working with Pelosi. Right there he could've gotten one of his major issues done addressed an issue that had widespread popular support, and also transcended the parties. He was too short sighted though to see those benefits. The Art of the Deal couldn't make a deal.

    The other time was following the Parkland shooting when he famously said he was for taking the guns without due process. Leaving aside that statement it did appear that he had an interest in some form of gun control and again Pelosi was ready to deal with him. Instead after resistance from Congressional Republicans and just ended up putting in an executive order banning bumpstocks. He pretty much collapsed on that issue and missed another opportunity to unite the country just to divide it further.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  10. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Trump had been saying for years that if he lost it was because of fraud.. Lo he loses and claims fraud.

    It's obvious that Trump nor his supporters were never interested in election integrity. This was always about creating any justification to try to keep Trump in office.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Unfortunately yes but there are enough people out there who are actually interested in unity and listening to the facts. That's why it's important to continue countering the false narratives that we still see here continued being repeated.
     
  13. foh

    foh Member

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    It's the alternative reality paradigm at work. Trump and people like him can't reconcile a possibility of losing at something and then appreciating life anyway, despite it. For some folks it's probably on a physiological level that they can only understand themselves to be either winners or losers because they can't adapt to new goals when previous ones expired - the brain is simply not malleable enough. I saw some ted talk about similar theory - people being unable to come out of misery/depression state because hippocanpus part of the brain wasn't producing enough new brain cells or some such.

    Once indoctrinated into thinking that Trump is god and MAGA is strong movement, such people will just stick with it even if they have to believe the most asinine things (like Spicer trying to convince people of biggest inauguration attendance or the Qanon trash) because believing differently would be "losing" in their mind.

    So my theory is that when Trump preemptively keeps on saying: "if I lose election, it's because it was fraudulent", it's not actually a victim mentality that I accused him of previously to @B@ffled but a sort of preprogramming folks with a new alternative reality supporting the claim of Trumpers being winners. The "truth", per this alt-reality, would eventually prevail, thus continuing their winning ways. They may know that it is a lie deep down, but they also know that without this lie, their life will feel like crap.

    It's like Trump supporters had experienced a midlife crisis during Obama admin, and decided to jump on the Trump train because it was the cheapest used roadster and then kept on polishing/painting over the rust spots till the wheels fell off. And then they called it a boat that they will sail one day (2024).

    Trully sad.
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Well he provoked his fascist style shock troops to attach the Capitol and democracy prematurely when they were not ready, so the majority of society and probably more importantly the large corporations have realized that the forces that they have been encouraging could ultimately be bad for their bottom line.
     
  15. seemoreroyals

    seemoreroyals Member

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    There is talk out there that it may be possible through the 14th amendment to have trump permanently banned from holding public office again without having to go through the trial phase of the impeachment process. If that is possible, it would be best for the country. If it goes to the Senate, all we will get is posturing and nonsense and in the end there is little chance that an additional 17 republicans will have the courage to join the democrats to convict trump. Biden needs to be able to get his cabinet in place and devote his full attention to defeating Covid19 and dig us all out of the hole left by trump.

    At the same time trump needs to be held accountable as do booklickers like cruz, hawley, moe brooks and others. Don't they all take an oath? Doesn't their role in inciting a violent attempted coup violate their oath? Whatever happens it is important that those implicit in inciting what happened on Jan 6th should be made an example of. To simply ignore it is to invite more of the same in the future. Measures need to be put in place so that when somebody else comes along, someone smarter and more polished than trump, and seeks to invalidate an election perhaps closer than the landslide we just witnessed, they will not be able to do so.

    Maybe at some point this will be something else that we can be thankful to trump for. Putting measures in place to prevent frivolous actions by sore losers and other MALARKY.
     
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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    i've been hearing about the 14th Amendment and it seems like this would still have to be something determined by Congress. There is debate also whether banning him from office would just take a majority of Senators and not a super majority.
     
  17. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    No he didn't. The dems cheating during the election provoked it. The lack of integrity from our legal system provoked it. Constant mistreatment and bias from the media provoked it.
     
  18. bobrek

    bobrek Person, woman, man, camera, TV
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    So.... here are 4 questions that have nothing to do with whether or not Trump did or did not incite anything

    - why did it take him so long to call on the Guard after the Capitol was breached?

    - during the breach, why did he and Giuliani call at least one Senator asking him to object to 10 state's votes to delay the process even longer?

    - during the breach why didn't he immediately go on TV or Twitter to condemn it?

    - after the breach, why did he tell the folks that he loved them and they were special people?

    All of the above questions are based on actual facts and not fake news
     
    #78 bobrek, Jan 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
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  19. malakas

    malakas Member

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    It is also important because the sides are not static.
    The radicalisation and brainwashing is an ongoing process.
    This day today hundreds if not thousands of previously sane americans can start becoming radicalised and fall into the rabit hole.

    First you have to stop the spreading of the cancer before you cut off the tumour.

    And to do that you have to flood the system with a huge dose of reality medicine .

    Censor the lies and spread the truth.

    If just one american reads this and stop from becoming a traitor that's a win.
     
  20. rockbox

    rockbox Contributing Member

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    Who determines what are lies and what is truth? The government, media companies, social media companies, tech companies, crazy politicians?
     
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