Diversity's Stigma - U of Michigan ruling due shortly

The Supreme Court has set precendents that it will act outside of constitutional boundaries to address social issues, i.e. Plesy v. Ferguson -> Separate but Equal -> direct contradiction to the Constitution.

Therefore, the argument that the Court needs to make direct interpretations of the Constitution in regards to Affirmative Action (which is designed to address the social issue of racism, making AA a social issue by association) is quite subjective.

This is not the Black & White issue that some of us try to paint.

BTW, as an African-American who went to college through an Affirmative Action program, I would happily welcome the ending of such programs if the preparatory process, i.e. K-12, were addressed with the same vigor and intensity as AA.

Affirmative Action was aimed at rectifying the sins of Jim Crow, and has grown to balance the inequities of the public school system, hence the inclusion of other minority groups. Its existence is quite disturbing actually, a sort of veiled acknowledgement that the public school system is slanted to favor a particular socio-economic group, and also illegal from a constitutional standpoint.

But as a friend of mine points out, a friend who is White, upper-middle class, and has been somewhat impacted by AA, '...its a necessary evil since no one is addressing the REAL problem', i.e. public schools.

 

Can I write in paragraphs. . . I can . . but i won't
you are you . . I am me

The main thrust of that is how white women have been able
to really take advantage of the opportunities created by Af Act
mainly though business loans etc
. . . . i find it interesting.

Rocket River

 

you friend is quite the astute guy. I think he is right on.
I perfer fixing the schools to Af Action.

Rocket River

 

Yes..the court has trounced the Constitution before. They did it in Plesy v. Ferguson, without a doubt. They labelled a man "property." That's just flat out wrong. That does not mean that the current court...particularly given the lessons of history...should ignore the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. To the contrary...because of the injustices of previous decisions like Plesy, the equal protection clause should prevail.

 

I know u are. . .and I truly appeciate it [no smilie]
However, It is deeper than that . . . .but i'm tired
of this argument

If a company list how many minorities her have
white women ae included in their number.
They rise in companies at a faster rate than any
other minority
They get more minority business loans etc

I had an article but . . . . i do not. .. so
I have no expectation for you to beleive me

U r Staunch in your position
as I am in mine.

I doubt i change your mind
as I know u will not change mine
however I do see various points

My point is. . . I have no problem with doing away with
Affirmative Action
BUT every other subjective criteria of hiring/admissions/etc
have to go to.

We have to go through a THOROUGH revamping
of standardized test to minimize cultural bias
We have to make sure this starts at the grade school level
I think the idea of better and worse schools is repugnant
I think if we all getting a free ed for 12 yrs. . .we should
all get the same free ed . . . not some folx getting
better free ed than others
This is esp insidious in grade school and middle schools
were Magnet programs etc are not as privalent.

We should all have equal opportunities
The issue also is. . .we want folx around us like us
we trust those like us more than those not like us
we *have* to give those not like us a shot . . . .
or else prejudices will remain. . ..

I could easily hate all white folx
but . . .what would be the point?
Cause all white folx are not evil . . . hell I would not even
say most are. but they have some evil ones
[they have evil folx in every race. . and I think the percentages
are about the same. . . it is just about the opportunity they
have to do evil . . . .one can rob u with a gun . . the other
can take your retirement money - see ken lay ]

Rocket River

 

Like Bush v. Gore?

 

Actually, the Florida Supreme Court was a great example of butchering the Constitution. That is why the US Supreme Court over-turned their decision on the recounts. In the end, the US Supreme Court upheld the Constitution (which states that the judiciary branch of goverment is to interpret law and not re-write it like the FSC did) quite nicely.

 

huh? please tell me how that happened. i can't believe you guys still hold on to that tired old argument.

 

Justice Scalia's principal justification for issuing a stay on the Florida recount resumption, permitted by the Florida Supreme Court, was that the recount would "threaten irreparable harm to petitioner (Bush) ... by casting a cloud upon what he claims to be the legitimacy of his election." Scalia assumes here that Bush has won, but it is also clear that he feared that if the recount continued, the election could go to Gore.

The balance of harms was overwhelmingly towards Gore, who would obviously be denied the presidency if the recount were not allowed to continue.

As for citing the 14th amendment as the reason for the stay, there was not one prior ruling that came close to supporting the majority opinion in the case.

It's not a tired old argument, it's a fact to many people and regardless of your political affiliation, the whole episode should give one pause.

 

It certainly is a serious issue to look at, but I wonder why people don't focus on the Florida Supreme Court's decision- making? Without the mess they started, the US Supreme Court's decision wouldn't have been necessary.

 

1. Rehnquist wrote the opinion, if I remember right

2. It was not the majority's primary justification as you say. Not even close. It was the fact you had disorganized recounts, big time. Ad hoc groups put together with no real experience in counting votes. They were ordering different ways of recounting in different counties, as suited them. There was already law prohibiting that from a Supreme Court opinion, something the Fla. Supremes just glossed over. And those rulings were based on equal protection grounds

3. There were FAR more issues than that...far more.

4. It should have never reached the Supreme Court..it wouldn't have if the Fla. Supremes would have followed the law.

From the opinion:

The question before the Court is not whether local entities in the exercise of their expertise may develop different systems for implementing voting. Instead, we are presented with a situation where a state court with the power to assure uniformity has ordered a statewide recount with minimal procedural safeguards. When a court orders a statewide remedy, there must be at least some assurance that the rudimentary requirements of equal treatment and fundamental fairness are satisfied.

 

In regards to the Florida Supreme Court's actions, the vote was not partisan.

From CNN- WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Supreme Court late Tuesday overturned a Florida Supreme Court decision that ordered about 170,000 votes recounted by hand to resolve the stalled presidential election -- a ruling benefiting Republican George W. Bush.

"Seven justices of this Court agree that there are constitutional problems with the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court," according to a 7-2 "per curiam," or unsigned, opinion in Bush v. Gore. "The only disagreement is as to the remedy."

 

actually I disagree.
I think the mediocrity we are seeing now is the result
of student who would be exception being put in
sustandard schools.
Unrecognized genuis is useless genuis

We achieved greatness by ordinary person
being given opportunities. .. if [like now]those
opportunities were limit to those whose parent
could afford it .. . then we limit our greatness

Jorge
You assume every school will be mediocre
I assume every school will be GREAT!
I think we as american have the capability. . . to make every
school great . . ..you do not. [I know I'm speaking for u here]


Rocket River

 

Madmax,

You are correct in your points.

Here is the court's ruling, in its entirety:

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/ELECTION/2000/resources/uscdecision1212.pdf