Do you know what provoked the punch? You are convicting the cop before you know the facts. Geez, it's one fairly ineffective punch. Hardly worth getting worked up about, I say.
Or maybe he was just standing there minding his own business when the police decided to beat him senseless. It doesn't matter, though, because that tape alone has enough evidence to support and arrest. An arrest has not been made. Why do you go to the general to the specific when it suits you. You were making general points, and I was countering them with general points. Then instead of noting that maybe being uncooperative to dirty cops in general is akin to allowing them to bend us over their police cars and stick whatever they want to up whatever orifice they choose, you go back to this specific case and say "Well, we don't know what happened here." (When actually, we do know that there is enough evidence available to support an arrest and indictment, but the police are once again refusing to do their duty). I make a general point, and you decide that I'm talking specifically about this case. I'm talking in general, just like you were talking in general about how great it is that the police get to bust heads and give attitude adjustments and how horrible it is that people actually expect the people who have sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution to actually do that. Is this kid a revolutionary? No, but his standing up for his rights once they've been violated makes him a revolutionary. I said people who stand up against illegal acts are doing the much the same thing that revolutionaries did. The illegal act didn't happen to this kid until he was bound, lifted up from the ground by his arms and slammed into the police car and later punched. his first opportunity to stand up was after the fact. And now by standing up for his rights instead of saying, "Well, sometimes the police have to bust heads of us uppity black folk" and taking the abuses of these corrupt cops, he is being a revolutionary, at least moreso than you would apparently like him to be. Standing up and saying that these corrupt cops are wrong is revolutionary. To stand up and say that it isn't right when a police officer violates the law and the Constitution is revolutionary. And doing whatever he can to see that these corrupt lawbreakers end up actually being punished for their crimes is revolutionary. It's what being an American is all about. Also, you defend their right to beat the guy up without knowing the facts of the case but chastise us when we defend a citizen's Constitutional Rights (I don't recall the Amendment that says your rights can be violated if you're talking back. Otherwise known as the "headcracking" amendment, I suppose)? And here I thought trials were where the facts were supposed to come out. Why don't they wait for all the facts before arresting and charging the kid? Because that's what the trial is for? Arrest the cop, charge him with the crime. If there is more to the story, let the jury decide. It may well get worse before it gets better, but police brutality is entirely the fault of the police. It cannot be the fault of anyone else. You know how to stop excessive force by police? Have the police not do it. Just like the best way to stop robbing convenicen stores is for that robber to not rob the convenience store. Any criminal's crime is entirely the fault of the criminal who commits the crime. Why are you so willing to excuse the behavior of a criminal if that criminal happens to wear a badge? If anything, there are too many people in this country who are willing to excuse illegal acts and potentially illegal acts by police officers simply because they wear badges and have dangerous jobs. But a criminal is a criminal. The police should be held to at least the same standards as the rest of the populace. But hey, I've asked any number of questions that you've simply ignored. You want to live in police state where the PTBs can do whatever they please, be my guest. But I, and a lot of other people, will continue to say that it's wrong. The law is the law. You break it, you should pay the penalty regardless of whether you wear a badge or not.
Am I the only one who wants giddyup to become a victim of police brutality? Not really, but I'd love to hear you b**** about it after the fact. How anyone could condone police officers giving someone brain and kidney damage in addition to skull fractures is completely beyond me. I guess the innocent until proven guilty only applies to policeofficers that are caught on tape physically harrassing someone.
Actually, I assume that because I'm finding giddyup's attitude to be in serious need of adjustment, I'm sure he wouldn't find it at all illegal or wrong for one of us to come over to his house and proceed to give him that attitude adjustment. I'm sure one of us is an authority figure in one way or another.
What is a PTB? You obviously come from a hostile attitude toward the police so I don't expect us to agree on this. I'm backing away from the specific because all I know about it is what I've seen on the video. No one here has detailed more facts. I back away because the cop may hae acted improperly... it depends on the facts of the case... but people are joyously convicting them without knowing all the facts. I think that's a joke. You've seen the video and you assert that there is enough evidence. Have you seen all the video? Have you interview either the kid or the cops or any of the witnesses? I'm glad you are so omniscient! BTW, it is the policeman's duty to arrest the kid and present the facts justifying the arrest. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Of course, police brutality is the fault of the police; is this police brutality? What Constitutional right was broken? The no-punching clause? Which of your questons have I ignored? Why do you have it in for the police? Okay, <b>RM95</b>, I guess we're back on bad terms ! Do the gloves come off again?! Who has brain and kidney damage plus skull fractures?
How is it self defense when the kid's already in handcuffs? Rodney King had brain, kidney and multiple skull fractures. But I guess that's what he gets for doing something illegal. What's the point of the justice system again?
<b>RM95</b>: Who said anything about self-defense? I don't know much about RK's injuries but they couldn't have been too serious could they? He was all over the TV being interviewed with JC at his side as I recall. The point of the justice system is to dispense justice. What is the job of the police again? Tell Rodney.
Well, whatever the kid did, they had him subdued...there's never an excuse to do what they did to him. http://www.crimsonbird.com/history/rodneyking.htm <b>When police finally stopped the car, they delivered 56 baton blows and six kicks to King, in a period of two minutes, producing 11 skull fractures, brain damage, and kidney damage. </b>
Powers that Be. I have a hostile attitude toward corrupt police officers and people who think they should be above the law. Yes. I see the facts of the video. Person on ground in handcuffs, lifted up and slammed into the car. Later punched. That would be enough to sustain an arrest. I'm not convicting him. I'm saying that anyone other than a cop caught doing exactly the same thing would've been arrested and charged by now. If there are more facts, let them come out at trial. He may well be innocent, but that's what the courts are for. Juries weigh the facts of the case and deliver a verdict. It's our criminal justice system. Why should this guy avoid that just because he wears a badge? And it's the duty of those five other cops to arrest their fellow officer when he went over the line and apparently broke the law. Why did they choose to not arrest their fellow officer? Well, they didn't know there was tape running, which I suspect made an impact. Why haven't they arrested him now? Who knows. But they should because any judge in the country would find there was enough evidence to support going to trial. If there's a good excuse, let him present it at the prelim or at trial and let a judge or jury decide. Letting other cops decide is a fox guarding the henhouse kind-of thing. I was responding to an earlier assertion that you have no problem with the police using illegal force if somebody f's with them verbally, physically or whatnot even if said suspect is already in custody. Whether this is police brutality or not is up to a jury. You assert that it's okay to prevent a kid's freedom of speech. Plus, there is a right against cruel and unusual punishment. Assault and battery would fall under that clause. Not to mention double jeopardy as they are punishing this kid twice (once by beating him, once in the courts) and the right to a trial (they are punishing him without a trial). There's a whole litany of them. You can go back and look if you want. I don't have it in for the police. I have it in for criminals. People who break the law should be punished. Cops included. The fact that we have this double standard that allows the police to get away with breaking the law infuriates me. It makes me mad to know that so many brutality cases get swept under the rug. It makes me mad to know that a 460 lb African-American was beaten in Dallas because he asserted his Constitutional right to remain silent. It makes me mad to see Donato Garcia beaten and arrested for sitting in his car. It makes me mad that Judge Benton was arrested for having the nerve to be Jogging While Black. It makes me mad that the police in my city can't be bothered to enforce the law regardless of the proof of the crime offered to them. It makes me mad that people have been arrested and deported or arrested and still sit in jail based on bogus drug cases. And it makes me mad when people excuse the behavior as if it really is okay when the police step over the line. That it should be okay to put those uppity minorities back in their place, and if that involves breakin' some laws and bustin' some heads, then so be it. It's wrong, and it's always wrong. I want safe streets. I want all those things that the police are supposed to provide. But I'm not willing to give up the protections offered by the law even if that were to mean safer streets. A criminal is a criminal. Put them all in jail, not just the ones who didn't have the forsight to get a badge and gun before becomming outlaws.
Within the bounds of the law. Too bad we often can't get the justice system to dispense justice because it refuses to throw the criminals with badges behind bars.
*Story Time with Holden* Holden opens up his story book, and all the little BBS members gather around and sit on the floor to listen to Holden. Some of them fall asleep right away but its all good... Once upon a time... i was in a park at 3am, with a friend of mine.. we were sitting on a tree. we were (not) smoking something while we were sitting on the tree. im getting slightly paranoid. this tends to happen during certain situations such as these. we are about 150 feet from the road running adjacent to the park. we are sitting there...a car drives by very slowly. i notice this and become slightly concerned. but it leaves and im relieved. then the car comes back driving very slowly the opposite way.. i become more concerned. it leaves again, but im pretty positive it will come back, i am also sure the driver sees us. no one else is around, its 3am. yes, the car comes back. the car stops 150 feet away, pitchblack park middle of nowhere. get this. this is what would happen when you are about to get killed in a cheesy hollywood movie. the guy in the car turns off his lights gets out of his car. and starts walking towards us in A LONG BLACK TRENCHCOAT. its pretty decent weather out. not cold at all. the guy in his long black trenchcoat starts walking straight towards us. my pothead friend im with, who ive been voicing my concern to as this car has been driving back and forth, finally, loses her stance on...hes just some nice guy whos going to ask us for a cigarrette, and we both freak and run back to our car which is parked a ways off, not near where he parked. now if this guy had continued walking to where we had run from and sat down then none of this would have freaked me out. but when we start running towards our car. he immediately turns around and starts heading back to his car. so i come to the conclusion that he was heading over to do something to us, at 3am, in a dark park in his trench coat, simply because he went back to his car when he saw us flee. so anyway, we get back to the car. ive been drinking a beer this whole time, and ive been holding the joint. so we get in the car, and the girl im with starts the car and starts speeding away. get this, two adventures right in a row. as shes speeding away this cop drives up right by us turns his lights on, and pulls us over. i throw the joint out the window. i have an open beer in my hand. i have a full beer on the side by the door. the cop does his usual cop things. asks us what we were doing. flashes his flashlight around the car. im drunk out of my mind, and totally convinced im going to jail for the first time ever. so the cop goes "maam step out of the car. sir put your hands on the dashboard." like i said im drunk. while shes opening the car door to get out, I, King of the Dumbasses, open my car door and get out instead of putting my hands on the dash. well the cop freaks out and runs over to my side and yells at me, saying that when i do sudden movements like that it makes him nervous. he starts frisking me. i have a crucifix in my pocket. he takes it out and makes some joke about religion. aawwww..a ray of light. hes cracking jokes. maybe we will be ok. he finds nothing on me. and tells us both to go the back of the car. he starts searching the car. finds both beers. pours them out. he comes back to us leaning against the back of the car, he asks her "the driver" if there is anything else in the car, she says no. he goes and searches the car again. and finds her purse. he opens the purse and finds a pipe in the purse. he breaks the pipe on the side of the road. he says "thats one lie youve told to me" is there anything else in the car. she says no. he goes back opens the glove compartment and finds a sack of weed, he also finds a burnt joint in the ash tray. he comes back to us and says "thats the second lie youve told me" he goes back to his police car and gets all these pieces of paper out. and comes back to us and starts giving us this long lecture, about how not to smoke weed while we are driving around. if you have to do it, do it in your own home. dont have open containers in the car. and dont come to random parks at 3am, especially the one we were at because, there are 15 seriel rapists running around the city, and they all go to that park to have gay sex and rape girls. (see trenchcoat guy above) i ask him about trenchcoat guy, because im drunk and for a second i thought he worked for the cops or something because i am that stupid. the cop told me he didnt know what the hell i was talking about. we told him thats why we were speeding. the cop says he used to smoke when he was younger. he says he would write down in his report that the two of us were in the area where he found a joint on the ground and that we were suspects. i shake his hand and tell him hes the greatest cop ever. my friend tells him he can come smoke with us sometime if he wants to. he says no. so we get back in the car and drive back to our ******* dorm. the two stupidest people on earth, and getting away with it. i didnt get raped and killed or arrested and raped in jail. so the moral of the story is.....i have had some good experiences with cops. there are a few bad apples in every red wagon of apples. but you cant throw the baby out with the bath water as a theology teacher of mine used to say. i deserve something from that but i got off....i dont know...that makes him a compassionate cop i guess. theyre not all bad and im not willing to even say most of them are bad.... Holden closes the story book *story time is over* Goodnight everybody!
Giddy this is why no one will ever buy the Plain-American bull. A black kid in special ed just got thrown onto a car while handcuffed behind his back, got punched in the face as three cops are standing around and you're seriously asking about how the cop may have been provoked. Get real dude.
<b>RM95</b>: I read through the link. It is still not clear how extensive was any damage. I don't remember much being made of Rodney's injuries at the time. I'm not convinced they were very long-lasting. I think I'd rather have been Rodney King than Reginal Denny though. And I'd rather be this 16 YO kid than either one of them. So, after considering all the options, I'll just stay me. You and mrpaige know where to find me! <b>mrpaige</b>: You seem to think in your conclusion that we don't have safer streets because of the police rather than the criminal. Howso? Are there no criminals with badges behind bars? I am not in Texas so I am totally unfamiliar with all of the cases you cite. Let the system work. Often cops have to use force to do their job. One man's excessive force is "just right" for the next guy.
Was he wearing his Special Ed badge or something? Of the 3 cops sorrounding this kid, one was white, one was black, and one was latino (or so it appeared to me). Where is your racist conspiracy now? Between your ears!
giddyup said Well, that about ends this discussion for me. I was just about to post to RM95 and mrpaige that I thought they went over the line by hoping you became the victim of police brutality, but now I hope some pissed off cop gets a hold of you and whips your plain American ass good. That would be "just right" with me.
This thread makes me want to envoke Administrator Brutality! You guys all need to take a step back, a deep breath and probably a stiff drink. I think we've had enough for tonight.
