[Dime] Who’s Better: Manu Ginobili or Tracy McGrady?

salary is the main factor. if tracy makes the same amount as manu, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

im a big supporter of tracy, but he does miss a lot of games (not to his fault for the most part though; you simply cannot control injuries).

 

No way. The argument for Ginobilli is based on his teams playoff success. Thats not a very fair way to determine who is better.

Is Paul Pierce better than Lebron James? No.

 

For a guy who has been in the league as long as he has, he plays enough games to justify his salary. He just needs to win in the post season before he gets any love. That will happen this year.

 

um...tracy has better stats than manu ACROSS THE BOARD in both the reg. season and post-season.

what's hypothetical about that? tracy has made all-nba 1st teams, all-star teams, considered the best player during a 2-year stretch...

if you're talking about winning championships, then it's different.

but on an individual basis, tracy HAS PROVEN he's better than manu and it's not even close (not talking about health here).

 

I always felt tmac gets way more coverage than manu. It's pretty hard to guard and double Ginobody when you got timmy D or tony parker going off. Pick your poison on who to pressure, and Manu will kill you either way.

But as we all know, T-mac has had defenses swarm him. ALOT more so than Ginobody. He gets completely shut down in the 4th now (like last season in the playoffs) because no one really pays attention to his help.

Here's something I want other members who "bash on t-mac" should think about. For those who really want a t-mac for ginobli swap, put it in perspective. Would ginobli still be as effective on the Rockets like with the Spurs? Hell no! Flat out, our supporting cast just wasn't as good as the spurs. (BUT finally this year its different). Ginobli plays against guys who keep the defense honest. Tmac doesn't.

If Ginobli gets as much of the coverage tmac does, he wouldn't even have room to flop. He'd be doubled every chance he gets, cause no one's going to guard Skip like they guard Parker.

Going back to the article, I'd pick t-mac, any day of the week. His natural ability as a better rebounder, playmaker and game changer is enough for me to pick him over Ginobli's flopping a$$.

 

when tracy signed that contract extension after 04-05, nobody made a peep b/c tracy earned that extension. he deserved that 3 year 62 mil contract.

but the past 3 years, b/c he's injured so much, it lowers his value. there's no way to get around that.

and i agree, tracy just needs to get some playoff success. if he does win a ring, he'll be mentioned as one of the best players to win the game, a first-ballot HOF shoe-in...

the only thing left in tracy's career in a championship ring (and an MVP b/c it's very unlikely he can ever win that right now)

 

If Ginobilli had to handle the ball as much as Tmac has had to over the past several years, he would average like 5 or 6 turnovers a game. He is not nearly as good when it comes to running an offense. Tracy's playmaking ability is special and something that every team in the NBA would want over what Ginobilli does.

 

I hate Manu "sniper in the building Ginobili", but anyone who says TMac is better passer hasn't seen Ginobili much play. I would call it even.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I notice that Manu is out a bit as well. We just don't notice cause we don't care much for the Spurs.

I remember JVG having this argument during a game on ESPN and saying that Manu's best year is equal to TMac's worst year. That says it all.

 

I think its safe to say that his back issues are behind him. The knee and shoulder problems that have plagued him recently just required more rest and rehab. Looks like that's almost behind him as well. Injuries happen to every player. Tracy has been more injury prone than your average player, but Its all about being healthy at the right time. Tracy has a good chance of that happening this year because we can win games even when hes resting. he doesnt have to grind through any issues this year. He can just sit and get better.

 

Nah. If the rockets had as many shooters as the spurs have had, Tracy would average 8 dimes a game.

 

This is definitely disputable. Based on PER and based on Adjusted +/-, Ginobili has been better.

Being "considered" the best player, winning awards -- those are reputation-based. Not a convincing argument at all.

It's not proven, in either direction. You ask beat writers, scouts, GMs, and coaches all around the league, and I bet the responses would not be as one-sided as you make it out to be.

 

A lot gets done when you're playing alongside arguabally the greatest PF of all time. An underrated/unselfish top 5 at least top 7 PG in Tony Parker. And a great coach that knows how to win.

For the majority of Tmac's career he's had mediocre coaches and less than stellar supporting cast. With all this Tmac was the MAN. Ginobili is pretty good but there's no comparison.

 

I agree 03-05's TMac was better than Manu, but I am not sure that TMac + TD + Parker were better than Manu + TD + Parker. A lot times, you just cannot do that simple math.

Just look the recent trade, who's better? AI or Billups?

 

Exactly, and John Salmons is better than both of them.

19.4 pts
49% fg%
39% 3pt%

...and he makes about 5 mil. He plays more games than Ginobili, makes way less money, and is more efficient. Doesn't that make him better?

LOOK AT THE STATS, THEY TELL THE WHOLE STORY!!!

 

Yeah. I think its also important to notice that Ginobilli doesnt have nearly as much tread on the tires as mcgrady has. Gino has been in the league what? 6 seasons, and he averages like 27 minutes a game while Tracy has had a few seasons where he played 38 plus minutes a game.

 

All that stat proves is Salmons is a more efficient scorer. the game is a little more complicated than that.

Mcgrady makes his team mates better. Dude literally made Chuck Hayes a guy who can score 3 or 4 buckets a game in 06-07.

 

The only reason it wouldn't be so one-sided among GMs is that GMs care about cost-effectiveness, as opposed to just ability. If we could somehow trade TMac for two Ginobilis (which is roughly where their salaries are), sure we'd do it, and so would most GMs.

However, in terms of straight-up who do they think is a better player, only Kevin McHale would choose Ginobili.

 

Can't say it any better. With duncan, they don't make the playoffs. Without shaq, miami might not make the playoffs. Lebron

 

according basketball reference, tracy's career PER is 23.3. manu's is 21.4. and tracy has had to do more, facing tougher defenses, and played his entire career for the most part as a 1st option. manu hasn't.

being considered the best player is not a convincing argument? making all-nba teams (esp. 1st) is not a convincing argument? coaches know what manu can do. and he can only do it for short stretches in 29-30 minute stretches. he cannot carry a team. sure certain selections are based on reputation. but tracy developed that reputation in orlando. it wasn't like he was a household name coming from toronto.

you ask beat writers.. NOW b/c they WILL TAKE INJURIES into account. with injuries, it's not as one-sided and i agree with that. but when healthy (or tracy at 85%), he's still better than manu.

i mean, manu can get a near triple double in 2 of the 3 games just coming back from an injury?

injuries have really lessened tracy's stature in this league and that's a natural effect.

but if we're talking about career, individually, tracy has done MUCH more than manu and that's not even close.

but tracy doesn't have something manu has: a championship.