[Dime] More of China blaming the Rockets for Yao's injury

My point is that you're treating all-star introductions as fact when its obvious they are not always right. What about Barkley's height?

FWIW, draftexpress.com has Mark Eaton listed at 7'3 and 275 lbs. It also has Olajuwon listed at 6'10 and 250 lbs and Yao at 7'5 and 296.

Actually, I'm not wrong. Your original contention was that since Yao plays fewer minutes than Hakeem/Robinson/Ewing (and other franchise centers) did, his playing time isn't the cause of his injuries. It's pretty impressive that you've been able to keep Eaton involved in these topics since he doesn't fit your original parameters.

My original contention is that due to his height and size, Yao cannot be measured against the same standards as Robinson/Olajuwon/Ewing and other franchise centers.

Tell you what. I know quite a few doctors. If you'd like I'll ask 5 of them their opinions. If the majority agree with me, you put $50 into the tipjar. If the majority agree with you, I'll put $50 into the tip jar.

Hows that sound?

 

No, my contention was that Yao's height and weight probably were major factor in his injuries, but that you can't simply say the Rockets played him too much and that was the cause. I compared him to centers in the past and said he actually has played far fewer minutes than centers of the past who were franchise-type players and carried the load. I also pointed to the fact that I believe he had foot problems before he was drafted as proof that you can't exclusively blame his minutes played or the NBA as the cause of his injuries.

"same standards" meaning what? More injury prone? Stats? Be specific. Statwise, you certainly can compare them. Minuteswise, you certainly can compare them. Whether you think it's fair or not is up to you. If you're saying he played too many minutes, then what is your basis for "too many minutes" since apparently you can't compare him to centers of the past.

I have no idea what you're asking them or what your point is. And why would I trust doctors? Aren't you basically saying the doctors that allowed Yao to play the minutes he's played to this point are wrong? You'd be arguing with yourself. It's like saying "I know a thief that can prove this person I accuse of being a thief is one!"

BTW, would you believe me if I emailed Mark Eaton at his email on that site I posted and asked him what his playing weight was? You may not (would you like a screenshot? want me to forward the email to you? lol!), but here is his response (I x'd out his phone number) :

------------------------------------

played at 295 all of my career

Mark Eaton
"There's a bigger game..."

www.7ft4.com
PO Box 982108,
Park City Utah 84098
435.xxx.xxxx

 

Actually, that wasn't your original contention at all. You originally looked only at minutes. Look at your first few posts in this thread.

Also, his height/weight should be factored into how many minutes he should be playing.

You were comparing Yao's minutes played to the mpg of Olajuwon, Ewing, and Robinson which is illogical since Yao doesn't have a comparable physique to the other 3.

My basis for Yao having played too many minutes is the fact that he developed a stress fracture in his foot.

Any doctor would agree that a 7'/245 lb man should be held to different physical standards than a 7'5/300 lb man.

 

Hayesfan, I hope you're happy posting this dumb thread that should've gone in the previous thread where I would've ignored it. You've got me arguing weight and emailing Mark Eaton. God!

I'm late to go ride my bike because of this crappy thread! I give up - I have a headache. lol.

 

everybody should remember that stern is the real reason that yao's hurt.

 

But first...

I was proving the first poster was a) wrong in his assertion of how many minutes/games Yao played and b) he has played far fewer minutes and games than previous franchise centers. I never said Yao shouldn't have broken his foot because he played fewer minutes. You came to that conclusion on your own. My point was, if he's saying too many minutes and games caused his foot problems, then prove to me he played too many minutes - even for Yao's physique, because I can prove he hasn't played very many games or minutes in comparison. He was bigger and he generally has played less, so how can it be said he was used too much. And before you say "because he had foot problems", again, I believe he had foot problems before the NBA.

So if Yao had foot problems before he came to the NBA, what would it say about your basis?

I don't disagree. History has shown huge men have problems with stature, posture, and mobility. I'm asking for proof that the Rockets played him too much when the stats show he's played far less than any of the centers I posted.

Now... bbl.

 

No offense, but you're being incredibly obtuse. You're asking me to prove he played too many minutes, but not accepting an injury as proof even though its the most logical argument. When the body is being overworked, injury results.

Also, like I said before, you can't prove anything. You're clinging to your comparison to Mark Eaton, but that's a sketchy comparison at best. The obvious comparisons would be to Bol, Bradley, and Muresan, but it wouldn't be prudent to use any of them since it would hurt your argument.

You believe Yao has always had foot problems, but they only manifested after he increased his mass and played more minutes? Sounds like it supports the contention that he was overworked.

 

Yao is just injury prone, you can't blame the NBA for that. How many less minutes is he suppose to play before he is in the stands eating a hotdog and drinking a beer?

What I do not like about China is that Yao does not get to rest for the summer. Rockets pay Yao's salary and his first obligation should be to the Rockets and his teammates, not China.

 

The argument of this thread is that Yao was overused by the Rockets. I am asking those of you who believe this, to prove what you are saying. If you are saying that it is true simply because he broke his foot, then my counter is China/Shanghai Sharks/CNT overused him because he broke his foot once or twice BEFORE he came to the NBA. Injury is not necessarily proof he was "overused". If so, then China is as much to blame since he's hurt his foot there, too. I'd love to get his Chinese stats and minutes per game to see how many minutes of "overuse" caused him to break his foot there. This is the whole causation/casuality theory and argument. You cannot prove Yao couldn't have played 2 minutes and not damaged his foot the same way. He has had a history of injuring his feet before he came to the NBA - this is what I'm trying to show you guys that are saying the NBA caused him to break his foot. Especially when the guy has a history of breaking his foot before he got to the NBA!

I have no idea what you're saying here, but hey, what's Mark's weight again? I never "clung" to a Mark Eaton comparison. You stated no one compared in size and strength in the NBA prior to Yao - PERIOD. I gave you Mark Eaton as an example. You then tried to defend yourself by saying he was 275. I said he was listed at 290. I emailed him and he stated his playing weight was always 295. You were wrong as this proves they were comparable in size. PERIOD. My statement stands - Mark Eaton is comparable in size and strength (he was actually probably far stronger and heavier in the upper body) to Yao.

No, I never stated that. I said the contrary. He's had foot problems since he was a teen. How many times have I said this? I have repeatedly stated my opinion here and in the past. In summary :

1) Yao's physical stature, based upon history of extraordinarily tall people, may have contributed to his foot injuries. I agree with this. I've said this in the past. BUT I believe this could also be the exclusive reason for his foot problems - no one has proven to me otherwise and his medical history sure hasn't proven to me otherwise.

2) You cannot prove Houston played Yao too many minutes and they were at fault simply by saying his foot was injured multiple times while playing in the NBA. His foot was injured multiple times while playing in China prior coming to the US. So did they overuse him? If so, then the Chinese official(s) are being hypocritical. That is what this thread is about and that is my point. I'm interested in finding minutes-played numbers for Yao while he was with the Shanghai Sharks as a teen to see how many minutes is too much for Yao since the Rockets apparently overplayed him. If they had played him 5 mpg, he may have still broken his foot because he has had a history of foot problems dating to before his NBA tenure. So would 5 mpg be overusing him? The Chinese Olympic team used him 30 mpg. Is that not overusing him? Let me know.

3) I used the minutes played stats of other franchise centers to prove to the poster meh that, no, Yao did not average 40+ mpg and he wasn't playing 80+ games as he stated, and that he actually played far less than many of the great franchise centers in recent memory.

4) Mark Eaton was not a wimpy 275 lbs. as you stated! And thanks to him for answering the email.

 

So, when is Mark gonna introduce you to Karl Malone so you two can become pen pals, too?

 

Dude, it's not about "the Chinese". It's about Yao himself.

Yes he has obligation to play for the Rockets for the 20 mil per year, but he also FEELS that it's an obligation and HONOR to play for the CNT. Both obligations are legitimate. You can't put a price on honor.

It's sad that Yao is injury prone just like other big centers over 7'1", but as a coach, Adelman should adjust strategy to accomodate a key player's physique for the benefit of the basketball club (and probably the CNT). Don't you think?

 

China be know what is best for everyone. That is true beyond belief. Yao should be play when he wants and never for what bad coach say. Playing for China is more important than all the worries of the world. Like a giant tiger looking for the food for his cubs, Yao will be back and crush David Stern to shorten NBA schedule. Yao WILL make NBA obey China. Burn up NBA for doing this to his honor Yao Ming.

 

^Lol.

Anyhow, you are either in the NBA or you are not. If playing for the CNT every year is more important, then Yao should not play in the NBA.

All the other NBA players do it. Even the big men. And considering Yao's size, it's even more important he actually has a rest period.

So, either one or the other.

Blaming Adelman for trying to treat an NBA player like an NBA player is just stupid.

 

No one will be able to prove it to you since you want conclusive evidence instead of persuasive evidence. However, since this entire argument is speculation, you will not find conclusive evidence. Nevertheless, I believe the majority of the persuasive evidence is in my favor.

What kind of foot injuries are you referring to? Stress fractures?

To disprove false allegations of Yao's playing time, all you had to do was give his stats. By comparing Yao's minutes to other franchise centers' minutes and emphasizing Yao's fewer minutes, you're making the assumption that all else is equal....which it clearly isn't.

That's fine, but could you tell me why every basketball statistic website has him listed at 275?

 

Actually, you're the one being obtuse. You are arguing that Yao was overworked, causing his injury. DoD has been providing factual evidence that counters that argument. Your only real response is, "your facts are irrelevent, he broke his foot - that's proof".

Try to take yourself back in time... before there was a broken foot... how many minutes should he have been played? Based on all the factual information available at the time (history of other players -- it's all that is relevant -- it's all there is), how many minutes should he have been playing?

Now, how can you be sure he would not have still suffered a stress fracture?

FWIW, I don't think either the NBA or CNT are to blame. Yao has a freakishly large body and he has been working it hard for many years. It's unfortunate, but not surprising, that he is having these problems.

 

What factual evidence has been presented that shows that Yao's injury is not the result of being overworked?

What exactly do you think a stress fracture is?

 

The comparison of his workload to other players. What else is there?

You didn't answer my question, though... how many minutes should he have been playing that would have prevented the injury? What would constitute not being overworked in your book?

 

Comparison of minutes to other players? You mean Eaton? Muresan? How definitive do you think a 2 player sample really is? Also, Yao plays a different role for the Rockets than Eaton/Muresan did for their teams. Keep that in mind before placing too much weight on the Eaton/Muresan comparisons.

Sorry, I thought it was a rhetorical question because its pure speculation and any answer (assuming its less than the number of minutes he actually did play) couldn't be proven correct or incorrect.

 

Well, this is what I mean by being obtuse... the parts of my post that you ignored...