But there is literally (as far as i could find) zero instances of a player as bad as brooks, at his age, really improving. You can focus on that one 30 game stretch where he played at a g league level (0.0 vorp is replacement level, so g leaguer), but i still value the 4 seasons around it more. If he was 20, that would be one thing. But he’s 27, turning 28 this season. I will say in theory, you are correct. Is it POSSIBLE he becomes a good player? Yes, just cause it’s never happened doesn’t mean it won’t. That logic apples to everyone though that has ever played or ever will play. I’d love to be wrong and see him turn into a good player, but unfortunately we live in reality. it also would be kinda cool to see him break the career low VORP record but i don’t think he will be around by that point
draymond hates seeing another rising enforcer type star standing right in front of him, that makes him seeing himself in the mirror and begins to understand he's too old to play the villain role. Bron hates others playing dirryyyyyyy on him cuz he got billions to earn. he crowns himself as the king, he hates others go way too far; but when it's the right time to hurt others or give a warning, bron never ever hesitates. Again, I'm so glad we got a mad dog, how many mad dogs still alive in this league who ain't afraid of playin physical n draws much hatred? Not many, but we got one.
That you didn't find any does not mean there aren't any, right? Are you going to convince us that no one in NBA history took a major step up in advanced stats in their mid 20's? If that's what you're claiming, the burden to prove it is on you and that's a heavy burden. I know you're better at this stat stuff than me, but here I'll get you started with some examples of players who had significant good swings in VORP from 21-22 to 22-23 and I'll select similar player types: THT, J McDaniels, Terrence Ross, PJ Tucker, MPJ, Okogie. I'm sure you can find more in NBA history after nitpicking at these. Again, I'm not saying he will go from a good player to a bad player. That's not possible in one offseason. I'm saying his advanced stats can improve significantly - to a level where he can easily be considered a championship-calibre role player (a good example is Jeff Green or MPJ). You're convincing yourself that we're talking about winning the lottery. It's unusual to indicate that a 0.5 to 1.0 swing in VORP is unprecedented in NBA history for players in their mid 20's. VORP does not determine who is a better player, you can see that clearly in how whacky the rankings are. VORP just describes performance within a specific situation, and even without changing situation players have taken a step up on their own teams in the past and that's a totally uncontroversial statement.
I don’t get your examples, neither mpj nor green were massively negative, mpj was positive as a rookie. I’m talking about guys improving at brooks’s age, late 20s. Green was only negative his rookie season.
It's very clear, all of those guys had big swings in their VORP over the past two seasons. It's irrelevant where it comes from, we're talking about a mid 20's player (or older) having a significant swing in their VORP - for example if Brooks went from -0.9 to -0.3 that would be a big swing.
On the contrary, I'd say if we're going to pay Brooks the kind of money that we are - it should be a simple matter to produce a player that has improved in efficiency at age 28 in all of NBA history. Anyone going to do it? PJ Tucker? (My best guess)
In general, I don't put additional responsibility on players for their salary. That responsibility is on Stone the way I see things.
Like I said, you can take one and nitpick or you can prove what you're claiming - that no one has ever improved their VORP significantly in their mid 20's. I gave you several example within just one offseason in NBA history. That's because metrics tell you the scientific past, they don't tell you the scientific future. Thanks for the chat.
I did look at the last 4 or so years, the best example was austin rivers of players being as bad as brooks (there's not very many every year) who weren't super young, keep in mind brooks was in his age 27 season last year, so his prime. He wasn't 19 or 20
Again that's a arbitrary standard to set. All we need is a significant increase in VORP for a player roughly his age. I'm happy that the responses we both presented make each of our cases. Thanks.
I don't agree with your optimism for Brooks. But I totally agree that hating a player because the GM overpaid him is a misguided emotional projection. But it happens to fans all the time. I have defended Ryan Anderson when people used his salary to berate him. It's not his fault that the team threw underserved money at him. Every poster here would sign an overpaying contract if the team was dumb enough to gave it to them.
Yup. Ryno is exactly the situation that taught me that lesson. You expect a player to do their realistic best. No one's skills improve just because they got paid more.
I'd honestly let him cook all he wants in year 1, that would increase the chance he's off the team sooner. The contract is what it is, there's nothing you can do about it. Only goal now is how to get rid of it and how quickly, and how much it will cost.
Memphis’ win total comes down this year and Houston’s goes up proving that @Salvy is indeed, much like Severo, the man. As well as Dillon Brooks. By season’s end, they will be the mans, or the men, if you will.
