Even though A LOT of reporters and columnists have been flaming Dierker as of late, I usually don't give much credence to their opinions. I mean, I respect their opinions, but I figure that they think they know too much sometimes when it comes to baseball strategy and when a manager is wrong. Joe Morgan, however, is a hall-of-famer, respected columnist, and is known to be pretty objective (aka not Blinebury-ps. but Blinebury's daughter is hot). Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1259931.html Here are some excerpts: ...A tip of the hat goes to Astros rookie Wilfredo Rodriguez for doing what an athlete is supposed to do -- compete. He competed against Bonds and lost, serving up home run No. 70 in the ninth inning. But there is no disgrace: 58 pitchers have lost to Bonds on 69 other occasions this season.... ...Houston's Larry Dierker, however, deserves all the blame for the Astros' approach to Bonds because Dierker managed scared the entire series, the pitchers pitched scared, and in the end the team played scared. And the Astros got swept in their own ballpark. I know most of the Astros players; they all wanted to compete, but they weren't allowed to compete. Dierker made a travesty of the game. He did the wrong thing for his team, for the Houston fans and for baseball. In the three games the Astros hit Bonds with a pitch once and walked him eight times -- and, believe me, all of them were intentional. The Giants scored 13 of their 25 runs in the series following a Bonds walk... ...A team never wants to put more runners on base with a four- or five-run deficit because more runs could score. But Dierker went against conventional logic. A few times in the series, when Bonds was up with runners on base, Dierker sent pitching coach Burt Hooten to the mound to tell the pitcher to not throw Bonds a fastball... ...I have been an Astros fan since I began my major-league career in Houston in 1963. But the way Dierker handled the Bonds situation, I am not an Astros fan for their final three regular-season games...
I don't know if he is a disgrace but he really stinks as a manager. If we had another one, then we would really have a championship team and not one that just talks about it.
I talked about this in another thread, but I think dierker was on verge of doing damage to the game of baseball. You just don't walk a guy nine times. That's not competing. I agree with Morgan.
Morgan is normally objective but it's no secret he's a Bonds guy. He's all into the whole Bonds/Willie Mays thing. So he does have a biased angle here. What I read from Dierker is that he gave every pitcher the option of how to pitch Bonds. In game situations I don't think telling your pitcher not to throw Bonds a fastball strike is that big a deal. How many fastball strikes was Ortiz throwing to Bagwell when he was up? Maybe Morgan should put his money where his mouth is and finally accept a managerial job in the majors. The 'Stros might have an opening soon if we miss the playoffs.
Pitching to Bonds is stupid. No way around it. You can call it a travesty, a disgrace whatever you want - but Dierker is trying to win games and one of the way you win games is by not giving Barry Bonds slow lobs to the plate to send into the upper deck. And if the legions of Bonds Bandwagoners don't like it, screw them, the Astros are supposed to be playing to win, not to appease your longing to see towering homers - you want that, go watch a tape of the Home Run Derby.
Also, I don't think the problem with the Astros is Dierker. He may not be a great manager but that's not what's causing this latest losing streak. It's becoming clear to me the problem is in that friggin clubhouse. Art Howe, Terry Collins, and now Dierker have all been scapegoats for the chokers in that clubhouse. It's not the managers, it's the players.
I agree with Armadillo, basically. Pitching to Bonds is not the way to win ball games. The only truly questionable walk to me was the one in the 8th inning last night, when we were down by 7 runs and the game was basically over. At that point there was little harm in pitching to the guy.
Screw Morgan. It was not Dierker that was throwing up Beach ball sized pitches to the rest of the Giants. It was not Dierker who is standing at the plate afraid of failure and thus not able to deliver the clutch hits. Dierker did what he thinks is best to give the Astros a chance to win. I guess they did not pitch to Sammy in the previous 3 loses either? Screw you Morgan, you are no longer credible in my book. DaDakota
I'm all for winning, doing what it takes to win, but not at the expense of the game. So what do you do next year? Walk the guy 500 times in a season (an average of three a game). I don't think so. It's damaging to the game. And above all else, that's what we should respect, the game of baseball. It's like playing with midgets, yeah, you might win every game, but it's not baseball, it's a joke.
Walking Bonds clearly backfired in this series. He scored almost every time they walked him. At least when they pitched to him, they got him out a few times... Another questionable walk was in the 1st inning with no one on and 2 outs. I mean it's the 1st inning, you shouldn't be afraid of a little solo homer. Instead they walk Bonds only to watch Kent hit a 2 run shot.
I agree with Morgan to a degree, Dierker was even walking Bonds when the Astros were already down 7 runs. If he is afraid of power hitters, why doesn't he just walk Sosa, and Bonds, and Junior and Piazza and Gonzalez every time they come to the plate? That was embarrassing. Walking a guy during a blowout? I can understand if it's a two or 3 run game and there are people on board, that's a quick way to lose a game and get fired, but walking him where there aren't people on, or during blowouts, or something like that is what hurts the game.
It's funny.... didn't we have entire threads devoted earlier to why Dierker was so stupid to <I>pitch</I> to Sammy Sosa (<a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?threadid=22400">1</a> | <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?threadid=22578">2</a>)? Now he's so stupid because he did <I>not</I> pitch to Bonds. We do realize the time we pitched to him he hit a home run, and that's bad for the Astros.... right? Dierker is stupid because we <I>lost</I>, plain and simple. Hero one day, goat the next. That's the way it goes. The media, though, grills him because they wanted Bonds to get 4 or 5 dingers in Enron that series. That's all. Personally I wish the Astros would have completed the job and not pitched to him in his last at bat. Astros still have the second best record in the NL, and they're already left for dead by most. That might bode well for them. As for Morgan, he can blow it out his ass.
Has Joe Morgan ever managed a team in a pennant race? No Didn't the Reds (Joe Morgan's team) pitch around Reggie Jackson in the 1976 World Series (which the Reds swept)? Its too damn bad that Joe Morgan and all those Bonds fans that came to Enron to see history ( they sure weren't there to cheer on the Astros) walked away feeling empty. I would love to see the Astros reach the World Series just to shut Joe Morgan up. Oh and has anyone looked at Dierker's record as a manager lately?
I'm hoping Bonds hits #71 today in a loss after the Astros beat St. Louis. I'd like to see the Bonds celebration while him and his teammates just got knocked out of the playoffs.
I'd rather respect the game and lose, than disrespect it and win. There's no honor in that. There is only defeat. I'm not aganist Dieker, just the strategy.
Isn't it disrespecting game to ask a manager to tell his team to do something he feels will make his team lose? Pitching to Bonds is like kicking an alligator, it takes guts, but there ain't a good reason to do it and that gator might take your leg off at the knee for kicking him. I want to see the Astros win games, and if that includes not pitching to Bonds, then thats how it has to be.
Nice gator analogy, I liked it, but remember the gator is just as afraid of you as you are to it. Ok. Only a half hour to go. Gator Number three Mark McGwire on deck. Sosa, Bonds, and Now McGwire. Ouch!
Joe Morgan is an arrogant little b**** who thinks he was God's gift to baseball when he played and is God's gift to baseball analysis now that he's retired. Has the man ever missed a chance to tell us about an accomplishment from his playing days or not believed he was right about anything. Just because you wanted to see a few home runs and the Astros didn't oblige doesn't mean you put a column on a major website completely denigrating our manager and saying you now hate our team. I mean think about it, in the history of bad things managers have done (and who even says this was one), how many times have ESPN employees gotten up on their soapbox and publicly bashed the manager. Try never. Did I sometimes get frustrated we were walking him so easily w/o a little challenging. Yes. Did it still make sense. Yes, because a homerun is still worse than a walk, and the way Bonds and our pitching staff have been going homeruns seemed destined to happen if we challenged. It's not Dierker's fault that every time we walked Bonds we proceeded to give up about 5 more hits in the inning. I'm actually pretty pissed with the way he did get the homer. Ninth inning, guy making his second appearance ever, throwing fastballs belt high right over the plate with the game not in question. Like someone else said, I wished we had finished the job and not pitched to him for the last time because that homer was practically against batting practice. And Joe Morgan can kiss my ass.
Joe Morgan is a peice of ****. He just wants his loverboy friend Barry Bonds to break the record. Astros did a nice job walking him. They didnt do like other teams that would throw 80 mph fastballs to bonds and let him hit 3 homers each game.
Exactly...in GAME SITUATIONS(ie. where the game is on the line)...which the Astros were NOT IN at any time Bonds was up to bat. Pitching around Bonds late in a game where the score is close(ie. 1-2 runs) is one thing, but doing it for the entire series is not smart baseball. Dierker tried to outsmart the game and ended up beating himself and his players. Then what does Dierker do when he realizes he made the wrong decision? He sends in a guy that has little Major League pitching experience to throw CHEESE to Barry Bonds. GREAT JOB DIERKER.......you dumba$$!! Dierker screwed up plain and simple. His pride may have cost the Astros their chance at the playoffs. Sorry guys, but Morgan is right on the money.
