Didn't Daryl Morey say high turnovers is a side effect of the run and gun style the Rockets play?

Not regarding plays per se but didn't you say that timeouts usually favor the defensive teams?

Usually in the NBA if you set up a play (after timeout), it works 80% of the time - Bill Worrell

I'm not sure who to trust. I'm sure it's not 80% as Worrell stated but it's also not as bad as you claim it to be. Both empty statements without stats.

 

I played basketball all my life and I've never been told that there is a difference. Either my coach tells me "Horns" and we run Horns, or he calls a timeout to tell up how we are screwing up Horns with our counters.

Yes there are special situational plays that are specifically designed to get a certain player open, or to get a crafty out of bounds play off the ground which I guess is what you are differentiating as a "set play" vs. a set.

At the end of the day, a play is a play. The Rockets run both sets like Horns which are more free flowing for the players to be able to counter, and they also call timeouts to either fix problems, or draw up situational plays to get the ball in bounds, get a player open for a last minute shot, or for some defensive scheme they are wanting to emphasize.

The point is the Rockets run all of them.

 

Rockets indeed have some plays on their playbook, but thery rearely use them. AND, most of those plays are based on p&r, we don't use plays based on indirect screens. For instance, we don't use a play to ease Howard reception in the post at a good position. Neither with Howard, nor any other big man, of course. And our plays with our wings are based on p&r's.

No, Rockets don't use the blackboard to facilitate the reception and move the defense. And that causes collapses, too much 1on1, and obviously turnovers via passing and via dribbling.

 

Do not argue with me, argue with the man.

 

Turnovers that lead to fast break points are killer and the rockets do it all the time especially Lin. If the rockets don't clean that up I doubt they get past okc or the clippers and if it's because of the offense we run then we might be in trouble.

 

It would be useful if we can get the turnover data by category, location and cause for each of the 30 teams.

Yes, some of HOU's TOs are just mistakes-- where the risk simply isn't justified by the reward. Harden's long pass to Howard at the end of the Miami game, for example. But also just a lazy perimeter ball-moving pass to a covered teammate and other situations. This is true for every team, though. So the questions is whether HOU makes more of those TOs than other teams. Those are the kind of stuff that should be minimized.

The others are the price one pays for hunting high efficiency opportunities. If you are looking for foul shots or get to the rim, sometimes you are going to commit charges or get the ball stripped in the crowd. Sometimes you get contact but the ref misses it and the ball gets taken away. These things happen. But if you are getting more points than you lose out of these gambles, it's fine to just file these TOs under "cost of doing business" and move on.


One other factor here is personnel. The Rockets' shot creator Howard and Harden really don't have the best handles or ball-security ability. Some elite stars manage to get into the paint, draw fouls while rarely losing the ball considering the circumstances-- Shaq and Chris Paul for example. But Howard and Harden are not these guys (the rarity of these guys is what makes them elite even among the elite NBA guys). Realistically, unless we swap out Harden or Howard or enable/force them play to differently (maybe get an elite PG like Rondo or an elite spread 4 to make the paint less clogged), TOs are gonna be high.

 

Morey or bmd? Morey or bmd? I, I, I just don't know which one to choose.

 

I agree to this statement to a certain extent... but how much of that is player based vs. coaching/system based since nearly every team in the NBA operates in the same fashion in regards to play calling from the sideline vs. relying on players to work in counters?

(also as a side note- i've noticed a good deal of improvement in their sets to move Jones around to a higher spot on the post in order to get Howard the ball as of lately)

I mean a stickler coach like Tom Thibs & the Bulls average nearly the same amount of turnovers as the free flowing liberal offense of Mr. Pringles and the Lakers. So I'm not really sure if in the Rockets case its more players not using their counters vs. the coaching & system itself they use vs. the style of players simply not taking care of the ball, and blowing plays to go 1 on 1.

I think the fan consensus here seems to be the Rockets system = turnovers which I agree with, but player personnel matters IMO. Heck look at Jeremy Lin vs. Patrick Beverley as a clear cut example. One player is notorious for pushing the tempo at all costs, and can be more dynamic, and the other player is much more conservative with the basketball, but is a much less dynamic offensive option.

So when Morey says "our style of play will lead to more turnovers naturally" I believe he's not just referring to the system in play, and the lack of plays being called, but he's also referring to the style of play with the players in the system as well.

 

I already read that last week. I honestly would prefer to see the original statement... Because I dare that the statement was put out of context or not correctly interpreted.

Other than that, I don't think is suitable to rate plays equally on RS games. Because coaches of playoff teams draw them thinking in playoff series. Obviously the average effort level and exigency by the opposition is not the same at both scenarios.

And on the pother hand, it makes sense that that "random screen" play was more effective. Because it's executed once ANOTHER play has been executed. So you have not gained an advantage but the defense is already moved and tired. It makes sense.

 

So you are going to offer me a few edited video clips as your evidence? Man that is weak. I cite direct quotes from Morey. Morey has wrung mid-ranged shots from the Rockets offense. Do you think he stopped there? Well, maybe, he probably began with going the chaos route, removing play calls from the coaching staff. That would be immensely easier with all of the different versions of R&R out there. The last Rockets head coach to call plays while the offense was in motion was JVG. That certainly is not in the Alderman R&R offense. You do realize you have no supportable case here don't you?

 

Then what was McHale doing when he held up his fist and yelled to the players. Was he showing solidarity with the black panthers?

 

The Rockets don't run a lot of plays in the sense that their offense is not premitated as the Jazz under Sloan or Hubie Brown. That is to say McHale does not say on a possession by possession basis that the ball will go to a particular player.

However the Rockets do have templates they use that are more likely to result with certain players getting shots. That is to say the Rockets will begin in Horns and then adapt during the actual possession. The decision making during the play rests with the 5 guys on the floor and that is by design.

Also the Rockets do set screens and run the P&R. As far as the Rockets offense having dry spells... Well if you rely on free throws and threes, you will have spells. Also the Rockets have not played a lot together and shoot from only a small amount of space on the floor. Having said that, the Rockets offense is very impressive.

 

I believe you are misinterpreting the situation. Teams in all probability will not change their offense in any fundamental way for the playoffs. Before game emphasis on various areas of the game? Certainly. Points of attack definitely. But defenses have evolved significantly over the last decade. That is the reason that JVG, a fine coach in all regards, could not call plays that performed as well as "random" plays. In the NBA basketball is taught at a much more innate level than running set plays these days.

 

I think your hatred has taken you off of a high precipice. Please reread Morey's exact words until you understand the implications.

And what do you think that 'something' was? That it made sense to call set plays?