i did not mean that, i meant do you study another religion or have no religion at all, or does your religion tell of Noah and the Arc, but you just dont believe it?
How so? I mean how would you take this story of Noah and his Arc, the difference between it seriously and literaly, given that it happened ATleast a few thousand years ago, back when their were no modern devices, how can it not be taken both seriously and literally. Sure if they had the things one has nowadays, one could say there is a difference between literally and seriously. But given this happened at a time where the wheel may not have been invented, tell me how it could have happened "literally" besides the explanation in the books? And if anyone needs ask, yes i do believe the arc took a while to build, but back then people tended to live longer than today. Yes it is documented in writing that people had longer lives, so the average life span of 65-70 years may have been very short to them. Why? because we are much unhealthier than we were a few thousand years ago, we are not as immune, we sit on our butts all day, over time our species has gotten very volatile, hence the shorter life spans.
The Torah = first five books of the old testament. taking it seriously =/ taking it literally. Honestly, this is not hard to comprehend.
if i recall you said BIBLE, and read my above post on literally and seriously, sure some things written are not meant to be taken literally, some are i think you're the one with the problem of comprehension honestly do you have to get all petty, give me a post with a little substance
Well, considering that the Bible contains the Torah in it's in entirety, in particular the flood story , and that it's the subject of the thread, I don't see the harm. But for housekeeping sake, let's amend my statement: The vast majority of Christians and Jews don't take the bible OR THE TORAH literally, including the flood story which is included in both. Satisfied? Are you kidding me? You're the guy who's laser focused on a petty grammatical issue. Maybe you do take stuff literally... If you honestly think that all Jews and Christians take the Bible AND THE TORAH (and for that matter, the Talmud) as a literal historical record - you don't know much about either religion either in abstract or in practice, so I don't think there's much point in hearing what you have to say about it any further.
You dint take it literally because you understand that a flood did not cover the word, and millions of animals could not have fit on a boat. But you can understand that the STORY has a deep meaning, rather than a historical event, like FranchiseBlade says: "to show that one person was righteous even when the majority of society around him gave in to vice, and destructive behavior. The man's righteousness was rewarded in the end, and the other so completely paid for their vengeance that even after huge storms the beauty of the rainbow can remind us the good that will always come again." Jesus spoke in parables - STORIES. Now do you say the parables are not important because they did not literally happen?
by taking the message (particulary of jesus) seriously and not taking every story as the literal truth.
there's another thing which bible are you talking about? there are so many of them, and yes for your information i know a lot about christianity, from experience i know more about the religion than many christians do, as far as Judaism goes I do not know as much about their religion, just the basics and you call the Bible fact, i dont mean to offend anyone, but hasnt it been proven that the many different bibles out their have been tampered with by man, the original message that God conveyed to Isa(Jesus) has been jumbled, so how well do you know the history of the Prophets of God? Care to illustrate your knowledge of Noah and the Arc? Noah's Life? What went on and why this happened? Since from your account I have no knowledge, tell me how it is that Noah and his Arc came into being? What happened to those close to him? On the Abrahamic religions how did they come into being? Can you name the line of descendants that resulted in these major religions? What happened with the descendants of Abraham in the middle? Do they have any stories of significance? Please enlighten me Oh Wise One, since clearly I have no knowledge of the Abrahamic religions.
If Jesus spoke in stories, how is it that this one story is not just in Christianity but in Judaism and Islam too. I mean since it is only a story, its there for a guess what you're trying to say a moral. I mean I havent read this book in the Torah but in the Quran it is read of something that actually took place, an event that happened. So this is just a story with a moral? And please refer to the book which you got this from, so that I may look it up also, and get back to you on it.
The above post is borderline incoherent, and not even on the point, so I don't really know how to respond. I do know that most of the time, "Ark" in the context of Noah's is spelled with a "k" rather than a "c", which has an entirely different meaning - since you're a stickler for literalism I'll give you that much enlightenment, free of charge.
There you go to being petty as a defense. It's Ok you just proved my point that you have no knowledge while claiming to do so. So instead of showing a hint of knowledge of the religions, by just answering a couple of the questions I gave you, you have to pick on my grammar. Whereas I was differenciating (<<<) between the Bible and Torah, you have to do so in Arc and Ark. So is that it SamFisher, you have no knowledge of these religions, as you were accusing me of, just like everyone else nowadays you have to open your mouth to be heard and have an "opinion". I'll leave you with a quote that I think may do you some good in life- "Tis better to have everyone think of you as a fool and keep your mouth closed, then open it and prove them right."
what if the story is true? but it's true only to the extent it could be understood to be true at the time. there are species of animals, for instance, that we've only recently discovered. what if the story says, "the world was flooded"...but only because it was all they knew of the world. the "known world" was flooded. "all the animals" means the animals that they would have come in contact with in their "known world". what if that's how the story is written? does that mean it's not literal?? does it make me a literalist for believing that MIGHT be the way it happened...or does it make me a non-literalist? does it make the message of the story any less vital, alive or pertinent, even for believers today? isn't that core message...faith in the face of ridicule in a world of disbelief, still central to the heart of any Jew, Christian or Muslim? i have a problem with words like "fundamentalism" and "literalist" because they mean something different to everyone. if someone says, Christian fundamentalists are blowing up abortion clinics and shooting the doctors who provide them, I'm offended. because one who is true to the fundamental teachings of Christ wouldn't do that. it's a hijacking of a word that leads one to the conclusion that Christ would call us to do that. the one who told his followers to turn the other cheek...who lived, and ultimately died, that out on the cross.
It's pretty safe to say that those who take the story literally - and by literally I mean literally, strictly to the letter of it - do not understand their religion very well. Language is quite a limited communication tool. No language as we know is able to communicate the message of God completely and most accurately. Bible has been through Hebrew, Roman, English, and probabily more. Power to the story.
Islam is ~600 years younger than Christianity and Judiasm is a ~4,000 year old religion.... The event could very well happen through the eyes of a few survivors in one isolated part of the world. With a 3,000-4,000 year old history, there are some losses in translation and retransmission. Is it more likely that Noah took all the animals his people knew of, such as horses, goats, and cows, and considered that all the animals than literally ALL of the animals in the world? Personally, I think it's was a true event that was gradually morphed as a moral over several generations to make the story more entertaining and permanent. It doesn't dilute the accuracy of the intended message because there are several stories that collectively contain the same message instead of an isolated incident. Similarly, do you remember news ten years ago or a epic movie at the same time? That movie could very well be based on a true story.
I voted no. I am a Christian. Mad Max also has a great idea in his post, that based on the limited knowledge of the people who wrote/told/pass down the story they thought that what was flooded was the whole world. They thought that the whatever animals they got were ALL of the animals, when that wasn't reality. Again it is possible to take something you don't take literally very seriously. In fact if it is all literal then why bother studying it, digging for deeper understanding when it is all there. I think it actually takes away from one's spiritual growth to take everything in it literally. That is my opinion, but if we look at the bible of applying to only the instances specifically mentioned in the bible then it would only relate to a small percentage of our day to day lives. If we look at the intended message and meaning behind the things that are in the bible, we can grow spiritually, apply them to all aspects of our lives, and try grown even more as we search for better understanding. You might disagree, and that is fine with me. I won't judge you, because it isn't my place. How can I say what works for YOUR soul and your relationship with God.
The firmament was written about to describe why the sky was blue, because water was above it. And the story goes that this fimrament was what drained down and caused the great flood. Well, we all know now that the sky is blue for other reasons besides a suppossed firmament. Of course, people make up stories all the time in the abscense of truth. Why would anyone be surprised that Noah was made up too? DD
I was going to write about something else but this part just floored me. You can't be serious that you accept as fact the average human lifespan was much longer a few thousand years ago?
