Not to mention he is one of the best finishers at the rim in the league. He realistically has overtaken LBJ in the MVP race. Amazing.
The fact Harden needs to be ridden to play defense is pathetic. Leaders shouldn't have to motivated like that. Harden feels he's worth the max and is talented enough to be the man so he should take more pride on that end of the floor. IF Harden did give more effort with Vogel, it's a logical conclusion his efficiency drops due to fatigue. He played fewer minutes in OKC. Do you agree that's a logical conclusion or not? I don't really mean to be rude, it's just that many posters have blown off obvious questions like this. Right, Beverley is 1.5" longer. Lin is taller though, so the height/length situation cancels out. Both payers have the same standing reach. Given these similarities Beverley is still miles better defensively, and it's mainly because of effort. Fair enough. The largest factor is effort though. Leaders shouldn't have to be motivated to play defense. Have some pride. I can, and have...in this very thread. Neither player is clearly better than other. I just favor George slightly. Can you respect that? Another poster said it was trolling to even suggest George is better. Those type of responses are the high horse I've been talking about.
First off I guarantee you that George was rode hard to play defense by the coaching staff. He wasn't known for his defense in particular until the last couple of years. On your second point I'd say that there's a lot more factors that go in with that. If the Rockets had a better defensive scheme as a whole Harden wouldn't need to go 100% defensively every possession because help "D" would be excellent, allowing him to expend more energy on the offensive end of the floor. That's the case with all great players, even Michael Jordan had a lot of defensive help from Pippen etc. so he could expend most of his energy on what he was best at (as pointed out by Phil Jackson in his book). And just to note, Harden plays more minutes than George anyway. I somewhat agree with your conclusions but again, I'd like to see Harden and George's roles reversed and see how they play on different teams. For example, I think the Pacers would be better with Harden instead of George because he adds a whole new offensive and playmaking dimension that the Pacers don't have. I can agree with this. I got the impression that you thought Harden wasn't nearly as good as George so I decided to reply. They are both very good young players in this league and George certainly has potential to be an extremely special player but he has to learn how to be more efficient offensively.
Fair enough on George. __ Harden... He played in OKC 3 full seasons before HOU. If he was rode by Brooks, it definitely didn't stick long. He was poor in HOU from day 1. Also, Harden has MUCH more of a leadership role in HOU. The fact he doesn't give the effort is much worse than George possibly being weak earlier in his career. Problem is current Harden goes nowhere near 100% defensively. His effort is so far from 100 it's difficult to comprehend any situation where he could play with less. I agree and consign that 1000%. In fact, I think both teams would be better off swapping players. Agreed. Much better conversation when people don't act like cowards.
Usually that's true. His effort is very inconsistent, and I think that is a maturity issue. George is mature beyond his years on the defensive end, and again I think that's a product of the organization he's involved in. Lance Stephenson is exhibit A in terms of how the Pacers speed up the maturing process. I agree with everything else you said though. All that said I think Harden will improve defensive over the years and learn to pick his spots better. I'm excited for the Rockets future and I'm happy to have him.
Let me wade into this issue. I feel sure that you all have desired that - just kidding of course. George is ascending in the NBA. He has shown promise. But is he actually a star? No of course not. He is the number one option on an offensively challenged team. Christ. Melo would be the number one offensive option on the Pacers. But Melo would be the third offensive option on the Rockets. The Pacers have a great defense and a huge hole on offense just waiting for a decent player to carry the load. George fills that spot. It magnifies his offensive production tremendously. And really how good is George's defense? Obviously very good. But realistically how good? Playing next to his team mates on the best defense in the NBA inflates his numbers. It is just how PM and dRAPM work. Defense in the NBA is almost impossible to characterize or rate. Everyone is working with the eye test and that at best is misleading. And why would anyone say that Harden is not the best shooting guard in the NBA? I honestly have no clue. That position seems indefensible. And just for you all's viewing pleasure I present the defensive stats for Harden and George. Harden first. And WOW George holds his cover to 0.05 PPP fewer points than Harden. Overall I call it a Harden win.
Wow. Harden is a fricken beast if they attempt to post him up. Those stats simply show that Harden struggles to defend the pick and roll when his man is setting the pick. Like really badly. Apart from that, they also bring some sanity. Despite Ariza going off like a frog in a sock the other night, Harden only allows his opponents to shoot 34% from 3 and 37% from the field. That's fantastic.
Yeah. I suppose that is why McHale matched him up with Ibaka in last season's playoffs. Harden just cannot be out muscled. Shows in his offense just a little bit.
Best judge of defense is eye-test IMO. You can watch a game and see when a poor rotation is made, then the guy misses a wide open shot. Statistics would say the defender played good D, but reality says he got lucky dude missed the shot. Or maybe the defender played well, but a tough shot was made.
Stats>Eye test any day of the week. You are just giving your opinion right now which has been disproved with numbers
I think Harden's offense tires players on offense. This is the reason for his good numbers. If so, GREAT for Harden and all Rockets fans!! Look at it as "end justifying the means." Harden clearly looks inept most times on defense, BUT, maybe he doesn't have to give as much effort as most players to be "effective". His offense is his defense. Hopefully the trend in this inverted defense continues. Go Rockets!
