Oh, ok. It's not effort that makes George > Harden defensively, it's height and IND's system. Ever consider George's offense might improve playing in an upgraded system like HOU's? Of course not, you're biased. WITHOUT Harden this season, Rockets have -forced MORE points -allowed fewer points FACTS
The Rockets don't have an "upgraded system". We hardly have a system at all. Our offense is good because we have a ton of scoring talent. Trying to get Paul George to do what Harden does for this team would be a disaster. His efficiency would crater. He would be a great second fiddle to Harden though. Too bad there's no way we could pry him from Indy.
Basketball is an incredibly complex game. There are few hard cold facts like baseballs OB%. ERA, HRs etc. Attempting to analyze basketball using stats like oRTG, dRTG, REB, etc. is just about fruitless. That was why advanced stats were invented. TS% is a much better metric than FG%. However even advanced stats have major flaws. For instance how does one measure the difference between two players, one of whom plays 90% of his minutes versus starters versus a player who plays 90% of their minutes versus subs? Enter Daryl Morey, obviously one of the best GM's in the game today. Morey is very good at fitting many various statistical measures together to obtain a more complete picture of a players capabilities. It is not easy or simple or something even a cave man can do. And even Morey makes mistakes. So do not expect to be able to say which of Harden and George is the better player using simple first order analysis. The issue is much to complex for that.
Interestingly if you take a good offensive player and put him on a much better offensive team and that player's stats are likely to suffer. Why? Because the competition for shots is much more intense. George would be about the third option in the Rockets offense, instead of the clear number one option on the Pacers. Conversely if you put a mediocre defensive player on a much better defensive team, that player generally has a perceived defensive improvement. Obviously in both instances the player is just about the same player on the new team.
I never said the gap was large, I just said that it was trending towards Harden's favor. The fact is that George's numbers are declining fast and Harden's are remaining steady or on the upswing. Lots of games left to be played so George can turn it around. It wasn't just George that limited Harden last meeting, Harden got past George easily but he was met with HIbbert/West/Stephenson etc. All excellent individual defenders playing a disciplined defense. Effort is something that comes with a sophisticated defensive scheme and a team wide mentality. Harden's individual defense has improved throughout the season but the team defense remains questionable. We are not terrible (#9 in defense) but we can certainly improve. Height and length certainly does make George a better defender automatically, that's just basic logic. I'm done replying if you are suggesting the Rockets are better without Harden, lol.
No, effort comes from pride Lin is longer and taller than Beverley, but..... You can reply..... better rebuttals are more welcome though
Players' point totals are usually what suffer when adding additional offensive talent while efficiency rises. Paul's ppg might fall, but his efficiency most likely increases.
It used t be said that NBA defense is 80% effort and 20% talent. That was back when true man to man defenses were used. In today's NBA we can modify that saying to better reflect the complexity of the defenses. Defense is still 20% talent. But effort now can be better categorized. Let me take a look at D-Mo. At the beginning of this season D-Mo's defense could be charitably described as poor. How is D-Mo's defense these days? I think it is best described as a plus defense. Sometime in the future D-Mo might even become a very good defender. What changed? Positional awareness. In today's NBA offensive players with the ball must be herded to the sidelines and the baseline. They almost never should be allowed access to the center of the court. Situational awareness. Who a player is responsible for guarding may change several times in one possession. A defender must always be aware of where his man is on the court and then be at the optimum position to defend him, whether it is to deny the pass, close out on a shooter, or force him to the out of bounds lines. Rotational awareness. Sometimes a defender must initiate a change in which man he is guarding. This could also be termed help defense or weak side help etc. Defensive line of attack. This is of critical importance when encountering screens. Over or under? Trail or switch? The best example I can think of is guarding Curry through screens on the perimeter. If a defender goes under a screen Curry most often will pop a long range shot. Defenses definitely do not want that to happen so they have to go over the screen. To get back to D-Mo a light seems to have gone off in his head. He is mastering these and other principals of NBA team defense. What do CHI, MEM and IND, the best defensive teams in the league, have in common. At least two things IMHO. A coaching staff that stresses defense and familiarity with the tendencies of their teammates. They know how to play defense together. McHale, contrary to popular belief, is a defensive minded coach. It takes time and thousands of repetitions to fully understand the defensive principals and know your own teammates.
I've never been a big fan of these efficiency stats because they don't tell the whole story. In baseball, I agree with them, but basketball is a different game. NBA Basketball is less of a team sport where one player can just take over and single-handedly win a game on his own. For every percentage stat you come up with, I can counter with another so it's sort of moot. For example, if we are talking about worth to the team, Paul George has a plus/minus of 7.6 per 36 minutes while James Harden is at 4.8. Part of the reason Harden has high percentage stats is that I don't believe they count the FG attempt if he is fouled. I do think that he gets a lot of bail out calls and those are the sorts of calls that don't get made come playoff time. I'm not saying George is a better offensive player, just that they are roughly even. But there's no question George is way better defensively. George is essentially T-Mac 2.0 with his ability to dominate two ways.
I already addressed why your evidence is misleading. You just seem to be conveniently ignoring it. Have you ever studied anything stats or scientifically related? I guarantee they will tell you to go back to school if you bring up a sample size of 8 out of a possible 82 and make conclusions out of it. In fact, they will laugh at you if you try to argue that it's "cowardly" to not accept a sample size of 8 as truth. As I already said, the only significant team the Rockets have beaten in that stretch is the Mavericks, and only barely. A logical person would have addressed instead of ignored it. Also, of course the Rockets system helps Harden. I never said it didn't, you are just arguing a strawman (like you have since the beginning). The difference between George and Harden is the Pacers' offense centers around George, whiles the Rockets offense centers around Howard first (or at least Harden has to share that system with Howard). Maybe you should stop being a hypocrite and get off your high horse. Or even better, go speak with any basketball player and ask them how much an injured foot affects your shooting. Since you never played basketball before, it may help if you got some opinions from people who do play it.
They tell a much more complete story than anything else available. The top two absolute best scorers in the game Lebron and KD have something in common. High TS%, eFG%, PPS and both get to the line a ton. This is THE blueprint to being a high efficiency scoring machine. It's already been discussed plenty in a few threads in the GARM that free throw attempts for stars go UP in the playoffs. Not down. And the disparity in plus minus per 36 doesn't surprise me at all. The pacers lead the league in plus minus. Defense plays a role in plus minus. I'm not here to debate that Harden is somewhere close to George in defense. I'm talking about offense and Harden is just on another level than George.
Michael Jordan? Lebron James? LOL. What are these people smoking? You can make an argument that he is at the same level as Harden, and that's about it.
I know why, OP must be a Wizards fan and he reads the Wizards forums all the time. Only Wizards fans would compare Paul George to Michael Jordan.
I'd say the better comparison would be Paul George and Scottie Pippen. George and Pippen are more defensive players that happen to be really good on the offensive end.
The only person in today's NBA comparable to MJ is LBJ. And maybe KD one day. But that is a big maybe.
