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Did John forget how to play PnR?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ashleyem, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. Downtown Sniper

    Downtown Sniper Contributing Member

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    Harden connected instantly with Wood if I recall. The only lobs I remember Wood getting were the handful of games with Harden.

    It's obvious Wall is much more concerned with getting his at the moment.

    I said it in the last game thread, and it's not just because of Wall. But Wood is not getting anywhere near the amount of touches and shot attempts that he is warranting out there.
     
  2. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Often when a person comes back from a leg injury.....it is common to experience difficulty at another level of the leg
    or other leg. Injured knee, complications develop at ankle or hip/lower back due to overcompensating.

    I’m a Physical Therapist Assistant. Speaking from experience.

    Note that Wall missed some games recently supposedly for knee pain.
    ——————————————-

    Also Wall doesn’t want opponents to think he is weaker than normal self. Everyone can see he lacks the same lift off one leg.

    Also, if the Rockets are shopping him, he wants to give teams the impression he is 100%.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01/lineups/2021
    Two man combinations
    EG / Wood............140.47 minutes......... -- 0.9 ast
    Harden / Wood.....199.11 minutes........ - 3.6 ast
    Wall / Wood..........181.33 minutes.......... - 2.0 ast

    EG / Cousins.........152.47 minutes........... +2.4 ast
    Harden / Cousins....99.01 minutes............ +0.5 ast
    Wall / Cousins.........41.18 minutes............. +5.1 ast : both were at Kentucky and probably know how each other
    think. Know each other’s favorite foods, color, songs, movies, spots on the floor to receive the lob.

    Note the better screen setter gets better separation and plus stat in the assist column for the ball handler.
     
    #42 ApacheWarrior, Jan 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
    napalm06 likes this.
  3. ashleyem

    ashleyem Member

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    I re-watched the last 5 minutes of yesterday’s game. The Blazers did go under the screen a lot or switch and dare him to shoot.
     
  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    All of this proves what?

    Will Wall become even half as good a pick and roll maestro as Harden ever?

    Or one day in the future when he is not favoring 1 leg or not unless he becomes close enough to the roller so as to know his favorite foods, songs, color, etc?
     
  5. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Same with Dipo.

    He initially fed Wood but is only looking for his now.

    Everyone says team is less selfish but I'm not seeing it.

    The team is more more WOC centric than WOW centric.
     
  6. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Wall was one of the best PnR tandems with Gortat in 13/14 (admittedly when moving screens were in)

    Harden was excellent at PnR with Capela. We all remember it took time for Capela to get the hang of it.

    Lin could get the ball to the roll man near the rim; but rarely by way of lob. To Capela being one of them.

    What do you want from me? Cousins seals his player better and then presents a target to pass to much like Gortat did.

    Wood scoring 30 pt and 15 rebs doesn’t prove it was all lob dunks.

    Will Wall get back his touch? Idk. Kobe was a shell of his former self after Achilles tear. What was he? Age 35 I have
    no doubt it shortened his career. He may have gone for playing until age 40. Vince Carter-like.
    ———————-
    Iso: is put your head down and beat the guy in front of you......know where your kick outs are. Where they will
    slide along the perimeter.

    PnR: that timing. Roll man needs to sell one way and allow screen setter to get in position to set screen. Show too soon
    and the play goes to crap. Have to reset and start over. Wasting time in the process. If Wood gets slightly hip checked
    and thrown off the pathway, the lob pass goes awry. PG looks like he tossed a lame pass. Trust. Wall needs to trust
    his roll man will get to the spot he needs to be. Will he dive to the rim or fake it and pop out for PnPop action. Two
    players working in unison thinking much alike. Favorite color, food, what time a day they normally take a dump.

    PnR also need to know the kick outs. Like Iso, where the perimeter players will slide along the perimeter as the
    defense rotates. In Silas scheme, will the player dive or cut to rim? If the player dives, pass goes awry and
    out of bounds. PG looks like a dusche for air balling the ball.

    So what I’m saying is Wall has to knock off the rust, while learning the plays, while learning the other players.
    Trusting them to do the right thing and be at the right place. This isn’t a player shooting at the rim which is stationary
    and not moving. This is like learning to dance. At first the players are counting their steps and looking
    at their feet. Around game 18 I said they begin doing it naturally. Not needing to count in their minds or looking
    at their feet in deep thought. Am I suppose to dive to the rim or should I have stayed on the perimeter?

    Like most dancing, trust that the other person is going to move in sequence......timing. Or step on everyone’s
    feet.......poor timing. Wall knows Cousins from college......needs to learn to trust the others.
     
  7. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Dipo PnR with Wood his 1st game with Rockets has looked better than any game with Wall is my point.

    And Dipo is also returning from leg injury.

    Further, Dipo is not even considered a great PnR facillitator as he barely did it with the Pacers.

    It is more interesting that Dipo is no longer even interested in PnR now.

    Perhaps it is not injury related at all but instead Wood is being iced out for some reason.

    I hope this is not the case and that your explanation is closer to the truth.
     
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  8. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

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    Teams will guard Wood and leave Wall to shoot. This isn't Harden or CP or even pre injury Wall running the PNR. Just let Wood work himself.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  9. riko

    riko Member

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    Harden is making the corpse of Deandre look good right now.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  10. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Different injuries. Quadriceps are called that because it is a group of 4 muscles. Other muscles help bear the burden.

    Achilles’ tendon tears and you are in a world of hurt. Bearing weight on the leg is difficult and pushing off as it
    goes from calf muscles to tendon that crosses the ankle. Please don’t compare a healthy all world Harden to an
    injured or coming off injury John Wall. If Harden tears his Achilles and misses 2 years, then by all means.

    Wall Ast% (2021): 29%
    Dipo ast% (2021) Houston: 24.1%........19.1% Pacers
    Eric Gordon ast% (2021) Houston: 11.7%
    Harden ast% (2021) Houston: 41.0 (in the 40’s past few years)

    It took Harden time to learn the lob with Capela.
    Lin never could get it (but he was known for PnR with Knicks A’Mare/Tyson Chandler)

    Fact is Wall/Wood combo has played 181 minutes together. You can cast judgement on them; but I choose
    not to do such a thing. That’s the equivalent of 3.8 games if each played 48 minute games. Small sample size.
     
  11. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Yep.

    He has weaponized that entire team.

     
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  12. banzai

    banzai Contributing Member

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    In a previous post, I mentioned that Wall had to slow down his game and let the pnr develop. He’s usually going Mach 3 to the basket. He’s going to have to slow it down on the pnr... read the defense. Wood is really good at deceleration and letting defenders blow by him. Basically wall gotta slow down on set plays and Wood has to speed up a bit. This will come with more reps. These guys had no preseason.
     
  13. banzai

    banzai Contributing Member

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    Really? You obviously watch replays and not games don’t see the team defense which we are now. I’m glad we figuring it out on defense first... which leads to transition basketball which is where wall excels... so, you should watch the games.
     
  14. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    its annoying how much oladipo and wall are selfish

    there i said it

    and yeah being an all star in the east is a JOKE
     
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  15. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    LOL
     
  16. Scola Scoops

    Scola Scoops Member

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    Hmm you could have a point there, though much as I don't like the guy for being a quitter, Harden is an incredible passer and probably the best in the league at running the pick and roll with a roll man diving hard to the rim.

    Let's see what Wall brings to the table in the next few games - hope coaches draw up schemes that involve Wood going downhill more, he's quite unstoppable in that type of offensive scenarios.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  17. Swapshop

    Swapshop Member

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    Yes. The point I was trying to make is that it might very well be possible that him and Wood just aren't in sync. It might have nothing to do with Wall completly forgetting pnr. It takes two people to run the play together, not just blaming it all on Wall. I'm sure the pnr will get better between the two.
     
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  18. LorneMalvo

    LorneMalvo Member

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    John Wall is barely if at all smarter than Westbrook.

    He just has better habits which is saying almost nothing.

    Completely unimpressed with every little detail and nuance to Wall’s game. No tricks or elite level manipulation in his game.

    John Wall’s 20/10 is not even somewhat close to CP3’s 20/10.

    Imagine being able to make this thread about Wall or Westbrook the past two years.

    https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/...-the-offense-a-lot-better-than-harden.296534/

    THAT said, I actually still like watching wall. Uber athletic, unpredictable, and busting his ass out there. But I had to lower the hell out of my expectations to enjoy him.
     
  19. hakeemthagreat

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    Says the guy who wishes we traded for Ben Simmons, a player who's so unselfish he passes up open jumpshots for himself
     
  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    With Gortat: pick and roll.
    With Wood: toothpick and roll.
     
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