Steve might very well average 27 ppg, but the opposing teams shooting guard would average about 33. HE DOESN'T PLAY DEFENSE. Steve isn't a superstar. A superstar plays on both sides of the ball. Iverson isn't a superstar either. The Sixers went to the Championship once with Iverson and the four anonymous rebounders and got spanked. They managed to feast on the pathetic lEastern conference and everyone thinks that is a sound strategy. Guess what, shooting sub 40% and playing no defense does not a superstar make, I don't care how many ppg he scores. We need to either teach Steve how to stop penetration, which doesn't seem likely, or trade him for a real player, someone who can play defense, like an Elton Brand, Jason Kidd, or Bobby Jackson+ in a package deal. This teams problems will not be solved by getting rid of Mobley and building around Francis and Ming, they will be solved by getting players who can play on both ends. So far we have 3, Ming, Mobley, and Posey. Elton Brand would make 4 and then we just need a solid player at PF. If the Spurs get Kidd then you can try to work out a sign and trade for Parker using EG and the starting 5 will be set. This team has championship potential, if a bit too much salary in bench players: 1 - Parker/Norris/Maddox 2 - Mobley/Hawkins 3 - Posey/Rice/Nachbar 4 - Brand/Taylor 5 - Ming/Cato
Hydra, I have never understood your admiration for Mobley. However, I do agree with you that trading Francis would get us more value than trading Mobley. But now that Francis is a max player, I think it is going to be tough to trade him simply because of having to match salaries. The last thing that I want to see happen is a repeat of the Quitten trade where we trade 1 really good player and get 4 chumps (essentially) in return.
The reason is that Shaq and Bryant got BETTER. Age and experience will do that. They became better players. Meanwhile, the teams ahead of them got WORSE. Duncan was hurt the year of their first championship, if you recall. The Jazz got old(er). Van Exel and Jones weren't even on the team in '99 and they still got swept by the Spurs. Campbell only started 1 game that year and was traded after only a few games. So apparently it wasn't Van Exel, Jones, and Campbell that were holding the Lakers back. It doesn't matter if the team was injured last year. He was required to be the focal point of the offense much of last year. He showed that he's willing to defer his game this year. You didn't see him 'jacking' a bunch of shots when he was a rookie, did you? He plays whatever role the coaches ask him to. He's started, he's come off the bench, he's played point, he's played 2-guard. If he had adequate backup, his minutes, and thus his shot attempts, would go down. Ming will get more shots when he COMMANDS (or demands) more shots. He wasn't consistent enough this year to get more than the shots he got. He will also need to play more than 29 minutes a game to get the number of shots you require. Great players don't have a problem 'getting shots'. You really think that if Mobley had Shaq sitting down in the post, he would be ignoring him and shooting that many times a game? I find it hilarious that you think Mobley is keeping these guys from becoming superstars. That really is amazing. Like Mobley is keeping Ming from getting tired, or being strong enough, or being more assertive. Mobley is the reason Ming sometimes gets his shot blocked by guys 8 inches shorter than him. Again, if you need someone else to 'get you the ball in certain places', then you're not a superstar and you're not good enough to win a championship. I didn't realize Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell were such 'savvy playmakers'. Apparently Hakeem would've been nothing without these savvy guys setting him up. I guess any other guard in the league couldn't have fed Hakeem the ball in the post.
Mario Elie Sam Cassell we only won two championships, truth. these were both big additions, not including the HUGE acquisition of Clyde Drexler in Feb 1995. you have an axe to grind against alexander...i don't like alexander all that much either...but he's certainly not the houston sports anti-christ. mr. bud adams has that title locked up.
Couple of points, As far as the Steve Francis defense thing.... I fully agree that he needs to improve his defense, no question, however his defensive shortcoming will not be nearly as evident and detrimental against SGs. Typically, most of the SGs are bigger players that post up; this would enable the Rockets to rotate guys more easily and double team if necessary. It is a whole lot easier to help out on a player posting up than a lightning quick PG that gets into the lane over and over again. Playing Francis as a 2 guard would allow a better defender at the point that is good at denying penetration. Freak, I completely disagree. In this zone area, getting good shots for a BIG MAN is very much a factor of his teammates. When Yao Ming gets fronted and help comes from the backdoor, whose fault is it that the ball cant be correctly passed over the top? When Yao Ming catches on the left block, whose fault is it that everyone is standing around watching. In Hakeem's day, it was ok if players stood around some b/c zones were not allowed; nowadays, off the ball movement is IMPERATIVE. Shooting 16 shots per game for someone like Yao means finding 16 good shots per game. In this zone era of the NBA, that has a lot to do with who his teammates are. Also, if Yao and Steve are sucking up 37-40 shots per game, there is no room for someone like Mobley to take 15 more shots a game. Typically, there there are about 80 shots to go around, therefore the rest of the guys can only take 5-10 shots per game meaning their value has to come from something else besides scoring ie defense and intangibles. Shaq and Kobe combine for 41 shots per game; this is why there is only room for a bunch of role players ie Fisher, Fox, Horry, Walker, George, etc that can do other things besides scoring. Mobley's worth as a player would go WAY down if he only took 8 shots per game. If he continues his 15 shots a game, then you have the same problem with your true stars not getting enough shots. This is part of the reason Mobley needs to find his niche elsewhere. Also, as far as this Lakers thing. I am not just citing a one year deal like you seem to be insinuating. The Lakers had THREE straight early exits. They did not start winning until Kobe Bryant took a superstar type role meaning MORE SHOTS. The two years before the Lakers won it, Kobe only took only about 12-15 shots per game, then in the three championship seasons, his shot totals jumped to 18, 22 and 20. This was b/c all the other players that needed the ball were cleared out and role players that did the little things were put into place. There is no way Kobe would be the player be the player he is today if his role only allowed 12-15 shots each night which it would have if they still had ball hogging role players like Van Exel and Campbell.
Your logic on this seems to be a little flawed. This offense isn't set up for Steve to come down and jack it any time he wants. if he did that I have no doubt that he could score 30 ppg. But the team would suffer. Take a look at TMac and AI's stats. AI averages 23.6 shots per game. TMac averages 24.1 shots per game. SF averages 16.1 shots per game. Considering Steve is shooting 43 percent from the field, is he took that extra 7.5 shots per game, he would average another 6.45 points a game and that's if none of those extra seven were three pointers. That would put Steve up around 29 points per game. I think anyone that watches the Rockets would agree that it would be easy for Steve to put up another seven shots a game considering he pretty much can get any shot he wants. He's trying to get his team mates involved more. The Rockets did the same thing with Dream before. The common knowledge was until they got consistent scoring from everyone, they couldn't be a good team.. Then they realized, I would rather have Dream shoot than anyone else on this team, so why take the ball out of his hands for these guys. The Rockets will soon realize this. I would rather Steve and Yao shoot than anyone else on this team. That's why i think Posey is so vital for this team. He and Glen Rice are blueprints of how everyone else on this team should pattern their games. Posey becuase he hustles, rebounds, and scores on transistion and Rice because he scores off double teams. With Yao out there, we don't need Mo Tay trying to post up. And actually, if EG would just step three steps in, I think his game would be well suited for this team as well. If he was consistently hitting twenty footers that would be a great help.
Juugie, Absolutely brilliant post. I fully agree 100%; glad to see some folks are seeing it the same way I am. I hope when offseason evaulations take place, the front office, Les, etc will notice this and design their gameplans to surround Steve and Yao with players that fill a specific and needed niche (this means no Mobley). If they do, by the end of next season, people around the league and in Houston will be talking about how Yao and Steve are both top 10 players in the NBA and how the team is poised to be a contendor from then on out. If not, well then start counting lottery balls.
Les deserves zero blame for how the Rockets have fared. Why is he bashed for giving big contracts to average players, when our town has a baseball owner that could have already delivered us a World Series if he wasn't such a tight wad? Who do you want as an owner - Donald Sterling? Les is not an evaluator of basketball talent; he relies on the professionals he hires. Who do you want as an owner - Jerry Jones? Les has always spent the money and took the chances to try to get us a winner - Clyde, Barkley, Pippen, Francis, Yao, etc. Keep in mind that there are 29 teams in the league, so if you win the title once every 29 years, you are performing average. Not every move that is made will result in a title. The point is, however, that Les has spent the money and took the chances at every opportunity to try to win a championship.
True that. So easy and boring to employ hindsight to bash an aggressive owner for making some mistakes. When we signed Cato, everyone saw it as a great move. (And, by the way, he blocked 12 in that preseason game, not six.) People forget that, but they did. I remember where I was when the contract was announced over the radio and how excited everyone was that we'd made the "smart" move of locking him up early. Not Les's fault it didn't work out. It's Cato's. But it was considered a smart move at the time. Same with Maloney. Same with Pippen. Same with Anderson. The Barkley trade was controversial, but mostly because we gave up fan favorites and broke up a championship team. But that team would have had a very tough time three-peating and Les made a bold move to improve. That's all you can ask. Rewrite history if you must, but from fans to radio guys to newspaper guys, these (possibly CB excepted) were considered smart moves when he made them. He's also made some great moves which remain popular. And, after all, it's not really him so much as it's CD and Rudy. Les has been willing to take chances to win. I really appreciate that in an owner.
Yeah, I'd say it would have had a <B>really</B> tough time three-peating, considering that team had already lost in that bid.
My bad, Clutch. My memory's not so good. He didn't wait long to make a bold move though. I'd like to know how many of you would have done the same deals (at the time) that we all now complain about? Cato? Pippen? Anderson? Maloney? I think the majority of posters here liked those deals when they happened.
Was trying to make a point with that other stuff (that it's weird to cheer a move when it happens and later call the mover an idiot for making it), but to present the other side... I'm a big Mo fan and fully expect him to keep improving but I was pretty much shocked by his contract. I thought Moochie's contract was amazingly bad and now think it's the worst one we're carrying (aside from Maloney -- worst with an active player anyway). And I also wavered on the Rice/Shandon deal. I appreciate that the organization keeps its word and all, but I would have let him walk. Each of these deals was controversial at the time they happened. For good reason, I think.
Batman, I think the bigger point that is being touched upon a little is that can you blame the controversial moves on Les? Rudy and Carroll who watch a bunch of tape and scout like crazy tell Les to sign Moochie for 7 yrs 22 mil, what is he supposed to say? No, even though I dont spending 80 hrs a week watching tape and scouting I still know more than you? Les is not Jerry Jones, he trusts his bball people. This is why the blame goes squarely on Rudy and CD, Les is simply signing checks.
I think you are overrating Steve's offensive game. He is not in the same league as TMac and AI. They have a lot more moves than he does. TMac is a lot taller and AI is a lot quicker. They both can create more types of shots. They can run a fast break while Steve is TERRIBLE on the break. Also consider the fact that Steve is facing smaller, weaker point guards. If he moves to shooting guard, he will be guarded buy defensive beasts like Kobe Bryant. That pull up jumper won't be as easy. Maybe he's only taking 16 shots per game because that's about as many shots he can create per game. Kobe can create for himself 30 shots per game coming off picks, shooting fadeaways, running on the break, and posting up, NONE of which Steve does very well. What is Steve gonna do, jack up 7 more of the exact same move- the pullup jumper? What makes you guys think that Steve is any better than Stackhouse or Sprewell?
You do realize that during Yao-Shaq I when Steve decided to take an aggressive scoring role, he was guarded by Kobe. Kobe simply did not have anywhere near the quickness to contain Francis off the dribble, and Steve went to the rack over and over and over again. Steve is more than just a pull up shooter, the guy already gets to the basket a good bit as evidenced by his 7 foul shot attempts per game. Imagine what damage he could do against slower SGs. Also, like Kobe that game, SGs will have to honor his ability to get to the basket by giving him more space and that will allow him easily get his jumper off. This argument that HP has created that Steve cannot get his shot on 2s and is a blatant attempt to defend Mobley. Mobley has nowhere near the overall talent of Steve yet he can get shots at ease on 2s but Steve couldnt is completely illogical. Steve Francis will be a brilliant SG for this team next yr while Mobley jacks shots in a Clipper uniform. Once Rudy and CD wise up and make these changes, this team will be on its way to a 50 win season next yr.
Perhaps you are right. I would like to see Steve at the 2 as an experiment. But let's not pretend that he is in the same like as Kobe, Iverson, McGrady, Pierce. Those guys score in all types of ways. Steve is weak on the fast break, doesn't post up, has no fadeaway shot, first step is not that quick, etc.
Kobe and McGrady I agree have more talent than Francis however no way on Iverson. Iverson shoots .414 from the field and .277 from the arc, thats a freaking joke. The guy has never developed a consistent enough jumper and enough range on his shot. Assuming Francis moves over the 2 spot next yr, he will be putting up numbers like 28-6-5 with solid FG% and 3 pt %, and then folks will talk about him as undoubtedly one of the top 8 or 10 players in the NBA. I think based on the info and tidbits you read on this site, the Rockets are headed in this direction. It will be a happy day when Mobley is on his way out of town.
I am sure part of it comes from him being a second round pick. Part of it is his firey attitude. Part of it is his on-court PDAs. A big part of it is the bashing he takes around here. The biggest favtor though, is that he plays both offesne and defense well. I think he should shoot more, not less. He shut down Iverson this year. I see people b**** about his shot selection, but he shoots the same percentage as Francis. Does that mean that he doesn't really have horrible shot selection (yes) or that he is a better shooter than Francis (also yes, Francis gets bailed out a lot with fouls). I think we should trade neither this season. If we must trade one, we trade Francis to a team under the cap, like LA, with a Glen Rice to get a great player in return. With Mobley's contract, the lack of exposure he got this season (with the Francis/Ming hooplah), and the abundance of serviceable SGs (driving down demand) I don't think we will get the better end of a trade involving Mobley. Look at the Spurs, they have the best record in the assoc. because all their starters can play defense. 3 of our starters play d, yet people advocate trading Mobley (one of our best defenders, not to mention a heck of an offensive player) for mediocre players like Miller, or even MLE pickups like Person. It is infuriating.
Iverson's quicker than Francis and much better at running the break than Francis. Kobe and T-Mac on the other hand are much bigger and have better post-up and coming off picks game than Francis. In other words, those guys have better and more offensive moves to jack up more shots than Francis. That's why they are 28-30 ppg scorer while Francis is a 20-22 ppg scorer. It's not as simple as he gets more shots, he will score more. I have no doubt that if Francis shoots 8 more shots per game, his shooting % will suffur at or near Iverson level. It's like Kelvin Cato scoring 5 ppg shooting 58%. So does it make him a 15 ppg scorer if he shoots 10 more shots per game? I am very sure the answer is a resounding no. Because despite his current shooting %, Cato has no more offensive moves and is not that good a shooter to demand more shots. If he jacks up 10 more shots per game mindlessly, no doubt his shooting % will suffur to a 35% level at best. Bad example I know, but you get what I meant? I do agree to moving Mobley to free up more shots though but more for Yao than for Francis. Please don't expect Francis ever become a 28-30 ppg scorer. I will be very pleased if he put up 25 ppg at his current shooting % and even to do that, he needs to become better on the break and work on his moving without the ball game.
Newgirl, I understand your points just dont agree with them. I think a lot of folks on this board dont realize how gifted a player Francis is. He has had to put so many parts of his game away in order to help everyone else get shots. If/when the Rockets deal Mobley and open things up for Francis to score more, you will see what I am referring to. According to the Chronicle, the Rockets wanted to play Francis more at SG this yr but they could not b/c Moochie sucks so badly.
