Stars make role players, not the other way around. To say Francis and Ming won't improve unless they have certain players surrounding them is crazy, no offense. A change in role players makes a marginal difference in team success compared to improvement by your big guns. The Lakers won because Shaq was unstoppable, not because of AC Green taking over for Elden Campbell.
Freak, your missing the point. Francis and Yao will never become great players w/o the appropriate complements. You dont think it affects both their games having a player like Mobley that NEEDS the ball to be effective? You dont think they'd be a whole lot better if they had a true PG setting things up and controlling the offensive flow? This team is never going to be anything more than mediocre unless they get a true distributor that can set things up. Yao can work all offseason long on his game, but if Mobley is still on the team next yr jacking shots outside of the offensive flow and Yao doesnt get the ball in the right places, then he will never reach his potential. If Yao gets the ball and the rest of the team stands around watching and the defense collapses on him, Yao wont produce what he is capable of. Allen Iverson would not average 30 PPG and have the impact he has had if he had Larry Hughes and Jerry Stackhouse jacking up ill advised shots outside of the offensive flow as opposed to an Eric Snow that gets him the ball in the right place. Steve and Yao need that as well.
The Lakers would not have won 3 rings had they not surrounded Kobe and Shaq with the appropriate role players. You do realize that everytime Campbell took the ball on the block, that was one less time Shaq took it on the block. There is a difference between scoring outside of the offensive flow and inside the offensive flow. Elden Campbell needed the ball to play effectively just as Cuttino Mobley does; AC Green, Samaki Walker, Horace Grant etc didnt. The Bulls would not have won their last 3 rings w/o Rodman. Its a two way street, stars and role players, you need both of them to be successful; Cuttino Mobley is neither.
I know that I am going to sound like a gushing schoolgirl, but MManal thinks about the Rockets exactly like I do! The only thing is that he does a much BETTER job at articulating his thoughts about it compared to me. Damn, it is so refreshing to read his posts!
Shaq was already great no matter who else was in the lineup. Elden Campbell didn't prevent him from becoming great. I believe LA still had a 60-win season with Campbell. Dennis Rodman did not make Jordan great, he already was. Cuttino Mobley will not prevent Ming from becoming great. Unless Ming becomes great, it won't matter who the shooting guard on the team is. Right now he's not good enough for it to make a difference. You're talking about marginal differences being made to teams that are already championship contenders. A role player isn't going to turn a 43 win team into a 55-60 win team. If a role player could do that, he would be called a superstar. And FYI, Mobley took almost 4 less shots a game this year than last year.
The Lakers initally surrounded Shaq and Kobe with the likes of Campbell, Jones and Van Exel. This resulted in them being a team that could win some regular season games but would constantly get beaten badly in the playoffs by the likes of Utah and San Antonio. These werent series that went down to a Game 7 with one shot deciding the difference, these were sweeps. The Lakers then get rid of all the pieces that dont fit and surround Shaq and Kobe with the appropriate role players and a coach that understands how to get players working in an organized system. Magically, the team goes from being the sweep fodder of the Spurs to 3 straight rings. Funny how that happens. It is true that Cuttino Mobley's shot attempts dropped by 4 per game from last season, but that stat is as twisted and idiotic as the 2nd youngest team stat. The entire team was injured last season so naturally Cuttino was going to jack more shots (19 per game). This season his total is down to 15 per game. All this while Yao is not even cracking 10 a game. For Yao and Steve to reach their true potential (I think both can be top 10 players in the league), they need to combine for 35-40 shots per game between them as opposed to the 26 per game they currently average between them. This just wont happen with a jacker like Mobley who takes 15 a game, and MANY of them outside of the offensive flow. Instead, a savvy playmaker would be able to get Steve and Yao the ball in the appropriate places so they can get this many good shots. In addition, a savvy playmaker would enable this team to get easier baskets and get more transition hoops. This imo would add 8-10 wins to this season's win total. I could easily the Rockets cross the 50 win mark next season if they make this suttle change. Yao has the potential to be a player that can average 20-25 PPG and 10-12 RPG, and Steve can average 27-28 PPG with the type of rebounding numbers he puts up now if he is given a scorers role, but not with Mobley on the team. That kind of production would put Yao and Steve among the elite of the league and elevate this team to elite status. However, with Mobley hogging up 15 shots a game, and Yao and Steve not getting the types of looks they should, this wont happen and the team will be stuck in mediocrity.
I swear we've been down this path before. Just imagine last year in the Western Conference Finals. Instead of Robert Horry, let's assume it was Eddie Griffin standing at the 3 point line. Role players are easier to obtain than star players. That is a fact. However, it's also critical to identify what type of role players you need. Star players make it easier for role players to specialize in one area. However, what if that one area happens to be scoring off the dribble? Is that really the right fit for a team trying to develop their young players? Those are the questions you have to ask yourself.
I don't see Steve Francis as a 27-28 point scorer at all. He is averaging exactly where his talent allows him to average. He has every opportunity in Rudy's system to jack up as many shots as he needs. The system is designed for him. He has one basic move, which is the pull- up jumper after several side to side jukes with the basketball. He is not quick enough to get by on a first step consistently, instead using his superior explosiveness to jump higher than players. He has not developed a fadeaway. He doesn't come off picks for quick jumpers. He does not post up. He does not move well without the ball. He does not score on fast breaks!! That may be his biggest liability. Guys scoring in the high 20 point range, like Pierce, McGrady, and Iverson, all do the things I mentioned to a certain extent. Pierce can post up with tremendous footwork and shoot fadeaways. McGrady comes off picks all day and runs the break very well. Iverson has an explosive first step and is a monster on the break. I think what HeyPartner has said on this subject makes a lot more sense. It is gonna take our #1 guys to make this team better. Is it a 2- way street? Sure it is. But right now we are still seeing too many weaknesses in our stars- Steve and Yao. We aren't at the point where we are just tinkering around our superstars, like the Lakers or Spurs are with their stars. Yao and Steve have not proven to be Shaq and Kobe. Perhaps a more apt comparison for Steve would be Latrell Sprewell, Damon Stoudamire, or Jerry Stackhouse, none of which is a franchise player by any means.
Gee, is there an irrational dislike for the owner by the Thread Starter? Too bad because faults that he has are way short of the sweet assessment offered. You create a defend Owner Alexander response mentality.
I don't see why Eddie Griffin couldn't hit that shot. Their stats look very similar. I remember Horry's rookie season. He was very limited offensively and he hesitated to take the wide open jumper he was given consistently. Once the Rockets drilled it into his head that he needs to take the open shot and not worry about missing, he became a better role player. This had a lot to do with Hakeem having a lot of trust in him and continually delivering the pass when he was open. Hakeem made him a better player, something Steve can't do with Griffin. When Horry hit a last second wide open 3 to beat a team (I think it was Orlando in the regular season) it was like a light went on. He knew his role. But when will Steve give Griffin a wide open look to win the game?
Griffin's shot arc changes alot. Most of the time it seems way too flat. I think this inconsistency has to be cured. IIRC, Griffin did have a couple of chances to win games this year and I remember chokage.
What does this mean? Are you trying to say that it is wrong to say that Elie came in under Alexander's watch? What about Chucky Brown? Does Les get credit for signing the greatest player of all time?
Did Kobe prove to be a superstar at the time when Lakers traded Campbell, Eddie Jones and NVE? Shaq yes, but I am quite sure Kobe no.
Yeah, but Horry clanked his share of shots his rookie season. But they kept giving him the shot. They trusted in him. Horry still talks about how important those early years were for him. But on this team, Eddie is lucky to get one good look in the 4th quarter.
Hey Truth, long time no see. You might have remembered me from when I shut your ass down when you last tried to start trouble here regarding Les Alexander and the NHL. And that's all your really here to do. Ask Jeff. Go ahead, diss Les for not landing a hockey franchise. I have no problem with that, except Les has tried to land a hockey team in the past and he is atleast a better owner than some other owner's we know like .........Drayton in some areas of the business. Les is just waiting to land a team until after the looming 2004 strike which could leave the NHL in the ****ter. By then the Nets will be in a new arena with the Isles and under their ownership of Charles Wang and Sanjay Kumar and the Devils will be left all by themselves, needing a new facility and ripe for the picking. The Pens arent far behind either. Dont you pay attention to sports news? If you want the NHL in town so bad, why dont you shell out the dough to land the team?
Truth has a HUGE chip on his shoulder about Les and his percieved actions that slighted Houston out of a hockey team. this has nothing to do with the Rockets, it's all about hockey.
Not really. Steve Francis is averaging 16 shots per game. Kobe, McGrady and Iverson all average 23-24 shots per game. Paul Pierce averages around 20 shots per game. If Francis is allowed to concentrate on scoring as opposed to running the team, he would be able to get over 20 shots per game as well. Also, if he had a proper PG next to him that could run a proper fast break, he'd pick up some easy hoops in transition as well. It is kind of difficult to be effective on the fast break when no one on the team has a clue how to orchestrate one. On Francis's 16 shots, he averages 21 PPG. Factor in an extra 5 shot attempts plus more easy hoops plus probably an extra pair of foul shots and you can arrive at 27-28 PPG with no problem. Essentially, I would like Francis to become more of a scorer next year averaging 20-22 shot attempts per game next season which would likely lead to about 27-28 PPG along with his usual 6 RPG. Also, I would like to see Yao up his shot total a good deal as well, I think going from 10 to 16 or so would be a reachable goal and would be doable with appropriate role players that understand where to be on the floor and when to get Yao the ball. That would enable Yao to average 20-24 PPG, and he would probably chip in 10-12 RPG if he continues to add strength and muscle over the offseason. When you have two stars sucking up this many shots, there just is not room for a third guy who thinks he is a star. You want these two players surrounded by a bunch of guys that will take 5-10 shots per game, play solid defense and do the little things required to win.
I don't mind Francis and his 6 or 7 asst a game, but those 4to's per is what bothers me. Just like some make the analogy to Iverson, but would philly be a better team with Iverson and his 23pts 7 asst with Tim Thomas and Stackhouse alongside Iverson or the one he has now? Imagine the upside and growth those 3 could make together. I'm all for trading for players who can fit a team concept and make this team better, but I'm also for a system that doesn't require Francis to work so hard for his shots. The invention of the triangle by Tex was because they didn't have that convential pg, but had to very smart adequate ball handlers. If a offense such as this was installed and players brought in( SAR and Glover, + future pick for Cat,Griffin and Taylor) this team could be very,very good. Right now the system and players don't match each other. Too many alike peices and too many peices that really don't fit.
