Even Knicks fans knew Olajuwon was the superior defender. I'm with you dude on this. I doubt he watched him play, which explains everything.
who do you think was the best blocker/defender without fouling? off the top of my head i have to say mutombo got so many blocks without fuoling. and i think Dream excelled at that as well.
But winning an NBA game is dependent on both your offensive and defensive capabilities. Why are you pointing to that as proof of defensive abilities?
5 time all defense team, four time 2nd defense team, 3,830 blocks. I quote from wikipedia: "On defense, his rare combination of quickness and strength allowed him to guard a wide range of players effectively. He was noted for both his outstanding shot-blocking ability and his unique talent (for a frontcourt player) for stealing the ball. Olajuwon is the only player in NBA history to record more than 200 blocks and 200 steals in the same season. He averaged 3.09 blocks and 1.75 steals per game for his career. He is the only center to rank among the top ten all time in steals"
Yes Not true, or else the Lakers were a better defensive team than the Magic last year in the Finals. Yes but how does that have to do with a regular season award? I know Dream was the better defender throughout his career and possibly that year as well, but did he have the better defensive season is my question. I think Ewing was comparable that year and highly underrated with D-Rob making 2nd Team over him.
look at the title of your thread. "Did Dream deserve his DPOYs"? your argument: the Knicks and Ewing were better my argument: Dream was not only statistically better, he won out face to face with Ewing. Yeah Offensive is part of it, so if New York's defense was so good, how come they couldn't stop Dream? anyways, I know you won't change your mind. but if people read this thread and do research, they'll find the truth.
DRTG and DWS are defensive statistics as well, of which are usually more indicative than simple blk+stl tallies. I dont think the stats favor one more than the other in those 2 seasons. And they actually didnt meet in the Finals one of the years I mentioned. That year the Knicks fell to the eventual champs and the Rockets fell to the team that would lose to the runnerup. Its half of it, and they couldnt stop Dream because he, by way of sheer will wouldnt be contained and he had superior teammates. The Rockets had a key element in their game that the Knicks lacked, quality floor spacers. The Rockets led the league in bomb attempts and got even better in the playoffs. Hard to double down when youve got to worry about the gunners. But yea even that doesnt do away with the fact that Ewing choked. You may be right, but your "research" is non existent and your attitude towards this question is obnoxious.
Do you understand the concept of pace and defensive efficiency? The Knicks were a great defensive team for their era, but simply using points allowed , given the Knicks obviously slower pacing, and then trying to say it's efficiency is quite misleading. The 1994 Knicks did indeed lead the leauge with a 98.2 Points per possession. That's a high rating, higher than the 2nd best Rockets (101.4). But not five points better. Of course, it's not the highest seasonal defensive efficiency rating even in franchise history, let alone league history. In fact, they tied this mark with Jeff Van Gundy in 2001, except instead of Patrick Ewing, that team sported Marcus Camby and Luc Longley at center. So by virtue of your logic, Camby/Longley should be in the conversation as well...right? If you want to look at winshares, the numbers are pretty much even. 7.9 DWS for Hakeem. 8.0 for Ewing.
Olajuwon was a better defensive rebounder, better shot-blocker, better at forcing turnovers, better at moving his feet laterally, and better at running back in transition. I can't think of a single defensive situation where I'd rather have Ewing than Olajuwon. Ewing was the center-piece of some of the greatest defensive teams this league has ever seen. He was tough, and obviously an imposing presence in his own right. But I'd wager that there was far less of a drop-off in the Knicks' defense when Ewing left the floor than there was for the Rockets when Olajuwon left the floor. Keep in mind that DRTG on basketball-reference.com mixes in a lot of team defensive performance. Ewing looks better than Olajuwon by DRTG because the Knicks were a better defensive team. That doesn't mean he's solely responsible for that better defense.
Chronz knows about defensive efficiency. He was referring to the 92/93 season (when Hakeem won his first DPOY), not the 93/94 season.
I know the difference between the 2 that claim was with regards to the 93 team that WON 60, and defended at a rate of 99.7PTSx100P, the 2nd best team were the Sonics (104.9PTS). Thats 5 FULL PTS my friend, thats historic, I just find it odd that a historically great defensive team only had a 2nd teamer and a few DPOY votes to show for it. Its the highest relative to league averages. Comparing across eras is difficult when you dont standardize those stats. The Knicks in your example defended 4.8PTS better than league average, in other words the average defensive team was closer to those Knicks than the 2nd best defensive team was to the Knicks in 93. Thats boggles the mind doesnt it? Knicks in my example were far and away the best defensive team in the league, they were 3rd in yours. Big difference I think Well Longley barely played but I would have given most of the defensive credit to Kurt Thomas and Camby. If it were my logic Id prolly go Duncan this year and wonder why Camby got no love. Ewing got his superior rating in less games/minutes but yea its pretty close. Again Im not saying Dream wasnt worthy but its not an absurd question to raise.
Now that you mention it, it is interesting that Ewing got very few DPOY votes during his prime. Here's the record on DPOY voting (done by head coaches): http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/dpoy.html Perhaps fans with more vivid memories of those times can explain it better than me. For centers, there was probably more emphasis put on blocked-shot stats and rebounding, and by that criteria both Olajuwon and Robinson had Ewing beat by a substantial margin when Knicks became a strong defensive team in the early 90s. I think voters may have also given more credit to Riley's coaching, since the Knicks because a stifling defensive team only when he came aboard. You probably would have gotten a better response on this topic if you posted it in the NBA Dish and made it more about Ewing than Olajuwon.
Whats up with all this hate on Hakeem all of a sudden? You know its the sign of the Apocolypse when you have some posters saying Ewing was a better defender than Hakeem or some other idiotic poster, that Someguy1229 saying T-Mac was better player than Hakeem! PEOPLE! HAKEEM WAS THE GREATEST NBA PLAYER OF ALL TIME! YES, HE WAS EVEN BETTER THAN MJ, IMO! Makes me angry how some people just don't respect the man who built the Rockets!
In G-Town so dominant defensively was Ewing that the hype on him was that he would become an evolutionary Russell, granted Hakeem came to closer to emulating that success but my point is there was a time when Ewing was an agile/mobile big. I just dont know if he had lost that ability by then (92-94) but at 7ft tall Im sure there are a few situations where youd rather have him defend. In 93 posted the highest DReb rate of his career on the best defensive rebounding team in basketball, it surpassed even Dreams CAREER best. In 94 Dream edged him out but again on an inferior rebounding team, though Im not sure how much of an influence that had on their stats. Probably, I wish we could plop out some old play by play from those days to get an idea but more importantly would his teammates being more reliant on him necessary mean he had a better defensive year? I remember when Camby came over to the Clippers from Denver, the Nuggets didnt really miss Camby's defensive presence yet when he played in LA he was exponentially more vital to the defense. Was he any different of a player? Which year was he more successful, the DPOY year or the year his team NEEDED his presence to even compete? OR If the Rockets go from a great defensive club to an average one and the Knicks go from a historical defensive club to just a great one, which says more? Its a hard matter to dissect but I guess theres a chance that the Knicks fare better with Dream and theres no way Ewing replicates what Dream did for the Rox. But dont tell me D-Rob making it over Ewing (defensive teams/dpoy votes) was justifiable as well. Im trying to see where those teammates ranked throughout their careers and what sparked the turn around but it all coincides with Riley's addition. Does that take away from Ewing, or is it an advantage he never had until then allowing him to finally fulfill his defensive potential?
