Did D'Antoni get a fair shake? Let's look at the starters for Knicks/Lakers teams

Frank Vogel? Dave Joerger?

Les didn't even want a formal interview with them.

I agree with this, contrary to what some on here believe; Les Alexander does want to win badly.

I doubt that. He had Daryl Morey in his ear telling him that the defense must improve; and Les Alexander decided that he knew better than Daryl.

Les had multiple experienced and successful coaches to choose from.

D'Antoni isn't the disaster as a coach that some think. He is bright and an exceptional tactician. However, my concern is the consequence through out the rest of the organization. D'Antoni will attempt to increase his power and influence with Les Alexander.

 

Mike D'antoni will be a puppet like all the previous coaches were hired under Morey...we will be the worst defending team, but fun to watch! Hopefully, we can bring in great 3point shooters and a stretch 5 and 4...bye bye DH12!!!

 

The question is can Harden do some of the things Nash did? Both needed the ball to be effective. Both did not play defense but were great playmakers. Both were great in pick & roll. There are ALOT similarities in Nash & Harden. The thing that worries me is Harden's basketball IQ. Those dumb azz turnovers will kill any offense

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4kfwhUm3O8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn7kaOQvEfM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQiWtNIyG5k

FOR A PREVIEW OF ROCKETS 2016-2017 SEASON CLICK ON EITHER ABOVE

 

James Harden is even better off the pick and roll.

IF the offense is run properly, with some of the right pieces; people will be surprised by how effective James Harden will be in D'Antoni's offense.

My concern is defensively and also the long term consequences of having an ******* coach.

 

Exactly. There are just too many drama queens right now.

D'Antoni has not done well on his last two stops. At the same time, there was nothing definitive about his last two stops which showed he forgot how to implement a very high octane offense. Those squads are horrible.

That Lakers team was not suited for his offense AT ALL - it was a bad call hiring him, and it was a bad call accepting that job. I'm sure he thought he could make it work given the quality and quantity of talent, but he probably learned some valuable lessons about the TYPE of talent he needs for his system to be most succesful. None of Kobe, Howard, Gasol, Howard, Metta were going to outrun or outquick their opponents. Nash was injured the whole time, Dwight wasn't himself. Kobe and Gasol were still very effective but very poorly suited to a high octane offense.

There's room to shape the roster this time around, with that in mind, and with his lacking defensive coaching in mind.

And I'll say it again, D'Antoni has never had a player as good as Harden at the start of his tenure anywhere. The Nash he received was not better than the Harden he's receiving.

 

Go look at Frank Vogel's Pacers

 

JR, the primary difference between D'Antoni's first Phoenix team and his great run with them was Steve Nash. If you put the shooters around Harden, which every fan knows has been this teams weakness for a long time, then this team can be successful.

The question boils down to if people think Harden is as good a player as Steve Nash in a system like D'Antoni's. If the answer I yes, then the Rockets can go on at least a mini run of having a punchers chance of winning the title. No other superstars of the quality of the Spurs players, LeBron, Curry, or Durant/Westbrook is coming through the door so a punchers chance is really the best we can hope for given current roster possibilities.

 

Vogel and Joerger didn't accomplish as much as MDA, as much as people wanted them. Could they have been better for the team, sure! Truth is they haven't, they've done it recently though but I'm not sure how much Les took that into account. Vogel and Joerger are good coaches, but I don't know why I get the feeling that most people think they were can't miss, championship coaches or something. Maybe they bring stablity to the team, but if you are swinging for the fences (Which the Rockets as an organization does...a lot.) you take big risks like this and hope they pan out.

MDA is a risk but that's nothing new for this organization.

I also think MDA has a lot more respect around the league than people think. I mean he messed up in the two major markets so it's no wonder you have certain people in the media upset about the hire.

Certainly a risk, a big risk at that as they could just scare Harden away and be at square 1 in 2 seasons.

JVG was the most experienced and successful coach out there and maybe Les makes that hire if he hadn't already been through JVG. I mean it's rare for a team to hire the same coach twice. It's like you don't want to go back out with your Ex, you broke up for them for a reason.

MDA is an experienced and successful coach too. This is not saying the other coaches aren't...but people are acting like MDA isn't.

Hopefully MDA approaches this as his last chance for redemption. Hopefully he's learned from what Kerr did with defense and tries to apply it to this team.

One thing I know is that yes, players will have roles and if you are not hitting your shots then MDA simply won't be playing you. So I think the days of Brewer going months without a three pointer are over.

 

That's a great question and I'll be honest, unless you look at pure Pythagorean Wins stats, the only way to "gauge" this is to take a look at the roster (which is what has been done here) and look at the results.

You yourself said that he's had some of the worst teams in the league...which concludes to ending up with some of the worst records in the league. I'm sure we can agree that's the case.

Look at the Celtics' roster this year. Any way you slice it that team had no business winning 48 games but they did and did it without an elite player (depending on your feelings towards Isaiah Thomas).

Look at the Blazers. They lost 4 starters including an All-Star player, a Nicolas Batum, a Wes Matthews, etc. Yet they still manage to win 44 games in the West.

The only example I see of "performing better than expected" or getting more out of his personnel than anticipated is the 2011 year when the Knicks traded for Carmelo. Even then, he still had Stoudemire (playing 78 games average 25 ppg) and, of course, Anthony to finish out the season.

D'Antoni isn't a bad coach. I can admit to that. But the fit and/or need just isn't there.

 

1st off let me preface by saying that Morey, Les, the chosen coach D'Antoni, and the whole Rockets Front Office absolutely deserve the current lack of confidence and fury from the Rockets fandom. We are not being unfair in the slightest by having our arms crossed and our brows furrowed.

That said, I can only hope for the best. I have to because like most of us, at the end of the day we are still Rockets junkies who will get behind our team despite disagreements.

(hold on let me get my flame suit on... ok)

D'Antoni's Suns were dominant for a reason. Kerr credits D'Antoni and Nash for how he and Curry run their similar style. D'Antoni is in the Pantheon of Coaches, on the select coaching group for Team USA for a reason. There is reason to be hopeful. Defense wins championships, this is true. But sometimes great offenses with okay defenses win championships. And sometimes a few superstars on a team with a kind of good offense and kind of good defense wins championships. It's all over the place. The trend is there is no trend. ....EXCEPT...

What is not all over the place is that whoever wins the championship year by year, they are very often and almost always in the Top 5 teams for point differential. And D'Antoni's Suns were always right there in the mix of contenders when you look at point differential.

People always say "Well what's the point of scoring 120 points if you're going to give up 112 points?" Well, actually if you maintained a +8 point differential against your opponents, then you'll more than likely be 1 of the top 2 teams in point differential, and 9 times out of 10 the top teams in point differential usually are legitimate contenders.

The biggest key now for us to be happy, for the Rockets to have success, for D'Antoni to draw up a whole bunch of Ws for us, is the Roster. We've seen which way it goes with D'Antoni when he doesn't have the right pieces or when he's thrown a team that's in the build stage or stitched together all Frankenstein hodge podge.

Morey has to get the right pieces that fit not only to D'Antoni's SSOL system, but hopefully also guys that will be 2-way and buy-in to whoever they are promising will fix our defense through our assistant coaching staff.

 

D'Antoni has had success and he is an exceptional offensive coach. He still has the touch, as he greatly helped the Sixers offensively when he was involved there.

The issue is that the Rockets already were a top 10 offense, they were near the bottom defensively. Joerger or Vogel are defensively minded coaches that would address the defensive issues. D'Antoni isn't as bad defensively as some think; he is just mediocre at it historically.

I have predicted 50 wins next year if Harden stays healthy. I think that the team will be motivated after the **** show this last season and will buy into D'Antoni's system.

However D'Antoni isn't a great guy, and he causes issues with other employees and I am concerned about that. I am afraid he will run off the front office; because if the Rockets win, you better believe that D'Antoni will take all the credit and Les will gladly give the credit to the guy HE wanted all along. The ego on D'Antoni is destructive if he isn't reigned in.

 

This is what I am most worried about as well. It just isn't a good sign when the Owner and GM are not aligned in vision. We all know Les wanted MDA. Morey favored defensive guys like JVG or Vogel. And even tried to offer Les another option with Stephen Silas. MDA has to know this. So when problems arise, MDA has Les' support and he knows it. That is trouble for Morey. Maybe I am wrong and maybe everyone is more aligned than it appears publicly, but right now, I don't like the optics of it.

 

Check out my post right before yours. It's not about Top 10 Offense (points scored), or Top 10 Defense (points allowed). Take a gander at this year's regular season leaders in point differential:
1Warriors
2Spurs
3Thunder
4 Cavs
5 Raptors

Look familiar? And Warriors are a top offensive team that's not a top defensive team. Same as OKC. Spurs are the opposite...a top defensive team and not a top offensive team. They're eliminated. In past Spurs championships they were the same but won it all. The constant seems to always be point differential.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Defense wins Championships - Not True<br>Final 4 teams in Offensive Efficiency <br>#1 - Warriors<br>#2 - OKC<br>#4 - Cleveland<br>#5 - Toronto<br><br>SAS was #3</p>&mdash; David Locke (@Lockedonsports) <a href="https://twitter.com/Lockedonsports/status/732244759306076161">May 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

Agreed. All of this is true and I agree with.

Difference is...well I think this team needs that. They need a coach that's going to tell Morey "I do my job and you do yours." because quite frankly the last few years it's felt like Morey is coaching the team.

They need a guy that has a vision and is stubborn about said vision and isn't going to let anyone get in the way of that vision, including star players.

 

My sentiments exactly. We dont need to be the top defensivie team in the league, we have to have a group of players that work well together and understand when they need to get that key stop late in the game. OKC is proving that now. Durant is even stepping up on D at key times. Better players on the roster will make this all look and feel better come November.

 

Point differential is obviously the largest indicator, but one of the best ways to get a large point differential is by being able play on both sides of the court. Being able to defend also leads to more forced turnovers and easy baskets.

 

With Dwight on the way out and the cap going up we should have some free agency money to play with. Hopefully Morey can craft a good roster around D'antoni and get a good defensive mind on the bench with him.