Dictator Chavez steals second Hilton hotel in Venezuela

You will never be able to have a rational conversation with him about Chavez. I would swear that glynch has a mural of Chavez wearing a halo painted on the side of his house.

 

That's an image I won't soon forget! :grin:

 

I hate this piece of s***. What's more dissappointing is that this a** is admired by our very own american president. Obama looks up to Chavez. Am I in a freaking twilight zone? Just 30 years ago, if there was a punk ass socialist in latin america, we took those bastards out.

 

Wow....This is my vote for post of the year.

This is why we can't have nice things.....

 

What are you talking about? Please show me anywhere that Obama looks up to Chavez.

Here's a hint for you. Deal in the world of facts.

 

Well I am not sure there is anything good about this. Unlike those who have had complete certaintly from the first corporate media objection. I suspect from what I know that I would counsel Chavez not to do this unless his criminality has gone too far to be tolerated or he is engaging in conduct, not just speech just to detrimental to the Venezuelan people.

Now as to why I am not sure if there is anything good about this.

1) A small cabal of right wingers actively conspired to overthrow the democratically elected Chavez by force. Is this guy one of them? Certainly most of the media cabal was.

2) Once their coup failed the same group tried in collusion with the US government to sabotage the economy, but ultimately failed. This created great suffering for the Venezuelan people including the middle class.

3) Chavez first election and the second one or so were certified as clean by the Carter Center (I know some of you consider Jimmy to be a communist like Obama). Yet the mainstream media, the NYT. Miami Herald etc. lied about the elections being clean and I believe Carter over them. These same writers are mainly the ones still making charges. Once these folks have been shown to be liars it is hard to believe them, though most everyone on this thread seems to do so. I dont' unless corroborated by more trustworthy sources.

4) Given the tremendous good that Chavez has done for the bulk of the people in Venezuela and the rest of South America in comparison to the policies of the folks like the elite media barron who ran things before he was elected, I give him the benefit of the doubt over those who give lip service to freedom of the press as long as they own it.

I am hoping Chavez doesn't go too far with this.

 

So...you don't know if 'this guy' was part of an attempted coup, but you group him with the others anyway because he opposes Chavez. Then, while holding those attempting a coup in contempt you simultaneously love Chavez, himself an conspirator in a coup attempt.

The wonderful contradictory and self deluded world of glynch.

 

For Hayes and Around the World it is all so simple. The corporate media claims Chavez is a dictator. He is some sort of a leftist; nuff said. No need to look behind the claim.

Better to depose him one way or another. Let's only be concerned with the effect on the elite or the middle class, no matter how small.

Of course Hayes does not know if this media guy committed a crime or is just claiming to be persecuted due to his running a free press.

 

Hey did you speak to any of the poor folks who could not read and were sick and hungry? Just the typical interaction of a tourist in a third world country? A few waiters, desk clerks, some of the elite who speak English or German?

I have two doctor friends who are from there as noted above.

I just think that it very hard to know exactly what is going on in Venezuela with all the disinfo from the pissed off local elite spread by the corporate media.

Do I think feeding and taking care of the health needs and teaching folks to read is enough reason to support the Gulag of Stalinist Russia? No, but I do feel some abridgment of the press is not outweighed by the situation in Venezuela, yet. In the future maybe I will change my position.

 

No it just makes them part of a small minority and makes it less likely that they support Chavez. Most of his support comes from the poorer foliks.

 

Interesting that you don't even attempt to answer my post. If someone trying to affect a coup is bad (in your worldview), and Chavez undeniably tried to affect a coup, why are you still supporting him?

As for whether or not the guy has committed a crime, it is highly probable that the charge is trumped up. It is undeniable that Chavez has used his power to freeze out his competition. That lends credence to the position it's a trumped up charge, whether he does it in the name of the poor or not.

Whether a leader is on the left or the right, it is historical fact that many leaders have moved from being democratically elected to dictatorship by consolidating their power and removing the opposition. How it escapes you that Chavez has been doing this really stumps me. I guess you're just blinded by the 'he's helping the poor' part of his platform. I'm not saying helping the poor is bad, or that using their material (oil) wealth for the benefit of the poor is out of line. But you seem to let those programs absolve Chavez of any wrongdoing. Simply isn't the case.

It's also a little myopic of you to dismiss SJC's experience especially considering he's actually been on the ground there. Sure, that's anecdotal evidence, but it's still of value.

 

That said you seem to be willing to dismiss a lot of the criticism against Chavez on the basis that he is some sort of leftist and therefore good for his country.

 

Went to see the Oliver Stone movie "South of the Border" last night. It was a good documentary. Shows a lot of good news clips of the hysterics on Fox and the mainstream media about Chavez. Also has good interviews with Chavez and 4 or 5 other Latin American leaders.

There was a good right up in the Chronicle today too.