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Dick Cheney

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rimbaud, Aug 2, 2000.

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  1. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Contributing Member

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    There is nothing like being connected. I hope to be connected myself someday. If there are any attractive daughters of elite CEO types reading this BBS (ha! ha! ha!), email me and we'll get married. I have a good job, I cook, I play guitar, and I love to listen.

    As for Dennis, I think you have to understand that the majority (maybe the entirety) of posters on this BBS who disagree with you politically are not hypocrites. Trust me, I have tried to catch them in it more than once, and even people with whom I uniformly disagree (Rocketman95 for instance) are totally upfront about their candidates' inconsistencies.

    In other words, yeah, Gore owns a ****load of Occidental stock. And RM95 would probably be among the first to point that out as a potential conflict of interest.

    Bravo. I agree with every word. I hope you did not take my prior post to be aimed at you specifically; that was not my intent.

    The person I had in mind was young, probably a college dropout, making $9.50 an hour in some menial job that he or she would have sneered at taking back when they were an 18th-Century English Lit major. They watch more than 30 hours of TV a week, take Rolling Stone's news stories at face value, haven't read a newspaper in years, and can't name their Congressman or Senator.

    They feel disconnected from the political process, because aside from occasionally pandering for their votes by promising youth-oriented services, it has little real affect on their daily lives. That, combined with the prevalent fashionable cynicism that George Carlin and Dennis Miller have done so much to further, leaves them with little of value to say regarding politics.

    And the only way to excuse that ignorance is to pretend that it was created intentionally, as a rebellious act against a corrupt and ineffective system.

    None of that would bother me at all; I mean, I need someone to refill my coffee at Starbucks or re-stock my returned videos at Blockbuster. So these people are performing a valuable service.

    None of that would bother me, were it permanently free of hypocrisy.

    Unfortunately, as I said, the political process is designed to pander to these mouth-breathers once every four years. They weave their way out of the woodwork, adopt the trite slogans ("Rock the Vote!") and clicheed stereotypes ("Republicans are all racist"), and without contributing even a synapse's worth of rational consideration, cast a vote that is weighted the same as the individual votes of informed, conscientious Americans.

    Once every four years, the "intentional ignorance" and well-deserved apathy act is mothballed in favor of the earnest young Concerned American act. They're no better informed than they were before they stopped pretending not to care, mind you, but now they want to Make A Difference.

    Yeah, I'm bitter. People are stupid, and they allow themselves to be taken advantage of.

    ------------------
    I didn't use the cocaine to get high, I just liked the way it smelled.
     
  2. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    I liked Plato's twist on it:

    Democracy is silly b/c people are too stupid to rule themselves.

    Oh wait, I didn't admit that.

    ------------------
    Dubyah: Because the picture on the newspaper. It just seems so un-American to me, the picture of the guy storming the house with a scared little boy there. I talked to my little brother, Jeb—I haven't told this to many people. But he's the governor of—I shouldn't call him my little brother--my brother, Jeb, the great governor of Texas.
    Jim Lehrer: Florida.
    Dubyah: Florida. The state of the Florida.
    —The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer, April 27, 2000

    Dubyah Speaks.
     
  3. Smokey

    Smokey Contributing Member

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    I liked Cheney's speech last night. I think attacking the opponent is quite exciting. It's tradition.

    Cheney didn't even bring up impeachment or the definition of is is.

    Joe Lockhart was on Letterman last night and he was quite hillarious as well. Letterman was pushing Lockhart to rank on Bush, and the Clinton press secretary did. He guaranteed a Gore victory.

    (Paraphrasing Lockhart) "28 days and counting. It's so easy to make fun of Bush, sometimes I don't even try"

    Just Bring It.
    (This may not make any sense to anyone, but for the under 21 voter it makes elections exciting)
    ------------------
    This, my friends, is a post.

    [This message has been edited by Smokey (edited August 03, 2000).]
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Brian -- you're my new favorite person!! Great post.

    What I enjoy most are the cynics who act like they're smarter than everyone else. They have all the answers, and absolutely no one on the political scene is ever close to their grand knowledge. If that were so, why the hell don't they get involved. The answer to that question is mere laziness, apathy or the fact that it's just not cool to act like you care about much of anything.

    Your MTV Rock the Vote reference was hysterical. Yeah..there's some unbiased journalism for you!! Do I really need Tabitha Soren or anyone else at MTV making editorial judgment calls on our process of national election. Look, Tabitha...spin the damn record or play some freaking music and shut up!

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  5. slcrocket

    slcrocket Contributing Member

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    Man was DAMN impressive. Great public speaker. Didn't take much from him, though, to send that crowd into hysterics...

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    Jazzkiller
     
  6. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    Almu,

    "So, my question is that if its all the people, then why not just get rid of all the a-holes in Washington?"

    Actually, the Republicans ARE anti-big government.

    "I wish everyone would just work toward the common good instead of their own interest."

    Hey man, just join the Communist Party! Screw the Democrats and their pseudo-socialism! [​IMG]

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    WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL... Next year [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by AntiSonic (edited August 05, 2000).]
     
  7. Almu

    Almu Contributing Member

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    AntiSonic...

    I mean, if its all the people, get RID OF the government. If you ask a Republican, they will tell you Clintons administration WASTED eight years. So does that mean Bush Sr. wasted 4? Or Nixon?

    If its all the people, I say lets kick them ALL out.

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    I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan
     
  8. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    Except when it comes to what a woman does with her own body or what 2 consenting adults of the same gender do in their private bedroom.
     
  9. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    Brian,

    That's a funny quote. I'm feeling like I support democracy (for the time being... it is 3:00 a.m.), so I'll be glad that the 'era of the end of big gov' is over. [​IMG]

    I'll be less enthusiastic about democracy in the morning when I realize that poorly informed people are choosing their candidates b/c of physical appearance and buzz words.

    ------------------
    "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived."
    --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush.

    (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00)
    Dubyah Speaks
     
  10. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    outlaw,

    "Except when it comes to what a woman does with her own body or what 2 consenting adults of the same gender do in their private bedroom."

    I'm with you on the homosexuality issue(frankly, I can't see how anyone in their right mind would be against less competition amongst one's sex for mates [​IMG]), but the Republicans aren't trying to pass legislation that would make it illegal for females to knowingly engage in activity where they could become pregnant.

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    WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL... Next year :(
     
  11. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    Dick Cheney is against ALL abortion even in cases of rape, incest or risk to the mother's life.
     
  12. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    outlaw,

    "Dick Cheney is against ALL abortion even in cases of rape, incest or risk to the mother's life."

    I can sympathize with him on the first two, because the unborn child is not at fault, and therefore should not be denied his/her right to life(What I want to know is exactly how hard is it to put kids up for adoption? There are thousands of couples out there who can't have their own kids. Are there circumstances that can make putting a child up for adoption impossible?).

    On the mother's life issue, I really don't know... Someday, both will be able to be saved, but until then... I don't know... Call me a hypocrite, but I'd probably go with the mother, unless she herself made it known that she was willing to sacrifice her life for the child's. The child still isn't responsible(in the sense of wrong-doing) for putting his/her mother's life in danger, though, so I hope we can make leaps in medicine that will cut down on this horrible scenario. [​IMG]

    "...surely they don't think that a fertilized egg is already a lifeform."

    Why not? It's just another stage of human development.

    [This message has been edited by AntiSonic (edited August 05, 2000).]
     
  13. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    Perhaps we should cover this in a separate thread, but I would find it interesting to learn why social conservatives do not approve of abortion in times when the mother's health is in danger.

    The Christian Conservatives: sending little bastards to foster homes.

    ------------------
    "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived."
    --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush.

    (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00)
    Dubyah Speaks
     
  14. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    I want to know why the conservatives are against the morning after pill. surely they don't think that a fertilized egg is already a lifeform.
     
  15. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    So I guess that means you're against the pill, condoms, or any other form of contraceptive huh AntiSonic?

    ------------------
    Going for the Rolls Royce!

    visit www.swirve.com
     
  16. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    When you are able to pass a football through your sphincter, maybe you will understand what it's like to give birth. Men should not be legistlating what women do to their bodies.
    And how can you tell a woman who's been raped that she MUST carry the child to term and re-live the experience everyday for nine months?

    [This message has been edited by outlaw (edited August 06, 2000).]
     
  17. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    So I guess that means you're against the pill, condoms, or any other form of contraceptive huh AntiSonic?

    RM95- You can nourish a sperm cell all you want, but it will not grow into a mature human being. You can nourish an egg cell all you want, but it also will not grow into a mature human being. A fertilized egg, however, will grow into a mature human being when nourished, as will an infant, a toddler, a preschooler, and a teenager.

    Preventing sperm and egg cells from meeting is not taking the life of a human being(if it was, then abstinence(sp?) could be thrown into the same looked-down-upon class that some people group condoms/the pill/etc...). There is no child if they don't meet.

    "Men should not be legistlating what women do to their bodies."

    outlaw- Men aren't trying to make laws that govern what a woman can/can't do with her body. Men and women are trying to make laws that govern what women can/can't do with their children's bodies.

    "And how can you tell a woman who's been raped that she MUST carry the child to term and re-live the experience everyday for nine months?

    How can you tell a person that he/she has to die because their mother suffered a horrible(worst) crime?

    The woman is more than likely going to re-live the experience everyday for the rest of her life anyway, so why make her also live with the decision that she took another person's life?

    Granted, she in all likelihood does not want the child, but the baby is still not at fault. Have there been any advancements made in the test-tube baby arena? Is it possible for a fetus to be removed from a womb and kept alive like unfertilized eggs are? This way, the mother doesn't have to have the child, the child doesn't have to die, and people that can't have children can make their adoptions more 'legitimate' by actually carrying and giving birth to the child. It may be years off, but it sure does beat the alternative...

    Also, examples should(and allready should have) be made of sexual criminals to make people not even want to think of committing such a horrible act. Fund the police more. Increase patrol on the street, and give cops the right to go Rodney King to the tenth power on rapists.

    "When you are able to pass a football through your sphincter, maybe you will understand what it's like to give birth."

    99.9% of women understand that having a child will hurt like hell. 99.9% of women AND men also understand that engaging in sexual intercourse will potentially produce another human being. If you don't want to bring another human being into the world, then don't have sex. If you're just too horny to not have it, than try even harder not to. As an absolute last resort, BOTH sould take the maximum amount of preventive action(I mean EVERYTHING-both of them taking pills, either one using a condom, "pulling out," etc...).

    To put it another way: I understand that putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger will kill me. I do not want to die. Therefore, thrilling as it may be, I will not play Russian Roulette.

    ------------------
    WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL... Next year [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by AntiSonic (edited August 07, 2000).]
     
  18. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    Whoa AntiSonic.

    I respect your opinions (and sympathize actually w/ alot of your intuitions). My one concern is the rape/incest scenario. IMO, when a woman has been violated in the most personal way, the last thing that any of us should do is to start throwing guilt laden rules around.

    I find your opinions interesting in that you previously condoned animal research. In the first few days after sex, the fetus is little more than a cell mass. Sure, it has potential, but it has no awareness or experience. How do you make the case that a few cells have merit but a complete sentient non-human does not? Is the issue some notion of a 'soul'? Are you just fond of humans?

    ------------------
    "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived."
    --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush.

    (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00)
    Dubyah Speaks
     
  19. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Contributing Member

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    This is just one of those facets of an argument that goes way, way, way too far.

    But I'm in the mood to humor you. So I'll play along. I agree with this statement 100%.

    FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, LET NO LAW PASSED BY A MAJORITY OF MEN APPLY TO WOMEN.

    Women of America, rejoice! You may now:

    * Kill

    * Rape

    * Drive drunk (Mothers Against Drunk Driving will have to remove or change the gender-specific aspect of their name, I guess)

    * Buy a handgun without a waiting period

    * Speed (but only if you're doing more than 70 in the far left lane)

    * Use drugs

    * Beat your children

    * Sell pornography to children

    * Masturbate in public

    And ANYTHING ELSE you can think of!

    Have fun! I'm moving to Australia!

    Now, for a brief breather from sarcasm. The quote I posted above is one of the most asinine statements used in politics today-- and there are a lot of them, on both sides of a majority of the issues.

    Part of living in society is accepting the fact that the individual does not possess ultimate, unlimited freedom. We've all agreed to sacrifice some of our freedoms in the interest of the greater society.

    You don't have the right to wantonly murder an unborn child for the same reason you don't have the right to get loaded and drive your car down the sidewalk. It's detrimental to society. Our elected and appointed representatives have constructed a system whereby a woman can abort a fetus up to a particular stage of the pregnancy; after that time, society no longer believes the abortion to be acceptable.

    It's an odd system and it doesn't make the hysterically shrieking need-a-lifers on either side of the issue happy. But it's a compromise that the majority of Americans are comfortable with.

    If, as outlaw implies, women should not be bound to obey laws passed by men, I am curious as to what other implications this precedent might have.

    Do black people have to follow the laws?

    Jews?

    Hermaphroditic lesbian cripples?

    ------------------
    I didn't use the cocaine to get high, I just liked the way it smelled.
     
  20. Special Patrol Group

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    What's asinine is the suggestion that the right of a woman to decide whether or not she wants to give birth to a child is comparable to rape, murder, or any of the other crimes you have listed. Save for purchasing a handgun, which is constitutionally protected sans waiting period, and drug use, which is a victimless crime, and should be no crime at all.

    The government has no right to stake a claim on a uterus or contents thereof. We do not have the right to tell some fifteen year old kid that her pregnancy is now our concern, and that she should shut up and go through with delivery because we think that's the right thing to do. And it's fairly well-documented that to attempt to do so results in the same abortions being performed by bad doctors, or no doctors at all.

    It's not a damned bit of my business or yours what another person wants to put in or take out of their body. And no amount of Jesus said this, or God told me that is going to change the fact that to insist otherwise is to insist on an invasion of privacy and a violation of basic rights.
     

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