I've never said he was a good rebounder. I'm meh about his rebounding. I suspect if he comes to the NBA next season that he'll be somewhere between average to below average rebounding the ball but his defense will take bigs out of the play and his team will actually win the rebounding war when he is in the game because he id's so good at switching and holding perimeter players. So we'll see. Udoh is a huge difference maker on the defensive end. In my opinion he's easily with the full MLE. If he signs for less he's a bargain. And it wouldn't surprise me if some team gave him more than that.
Me too. I can't quit laughing after reading your posts in this thread. Comparing Jones and Dmo's stats Read them. They'll make you laugh even more. Because this was a player you actually saw play. Lmao
I can't respect you as a poster if you can't get past your bias enough to agree that Udoh is a horrible defensive rebounder. You make your little favorites after doing little fan scouting like everybody else does, and make ridiculous claims, and are blinded by your own bias on the opinions you form. Lets make a bet, regarding one of your many ridiculous claims. You said that Frank Mason TODAY Is better then the CURRENT version of Isaiah Thomas. If you believe that then put up. If Frank Mason doesn't average 20+ points and 5+ assist his rookie year, you'l delete your account (and not make another one) If he does then I delete my account (and won't make another one). The only exception is if Mason has a big injury.
Dampier was never that quick. I said he couldve produced what Capela had, plus maybe more, so how is Morey not interested in that ?
Nope. That doesn't prove anything. It took Thomas several years before a team handed him the keys. Thomas didn't get better all of a sudden. He's essentially the same player he was as a rookie, only now with NBA experience, the starters role, and a lead role. That's not likely to happen for Mason in his rookie season. And definitely won't happen if he is a Rocket. Mason will likely, as most rookies do, come off the bench. Or he may be foolishly passed over by everybody and have to grind away oversees or in dleague until he gets his shot. The NBA is a tough business. There are thirty new players that are given guaranteed contracts every season. Plus there is already a host of second round picks maturing in Europe and other places. So your "bet" would not prove that Mason is better than Thomas. What will prove Mason is better than Thomas is when he gets his shot to play against Thomas with a quality team around him. Those circumstances may be a long time arriving. But that doesn't mean Mason isn't the better player. He is. Mason has every skill Thomas has plus he plays good defense. I think it's hilarious that you think I have a bias for Udoh when you haven't seen him play and I'm being reserved about his rebounding. You're being stupid here. I've not said he's a good rebounder. But just because I'm not willing to say he's the worst rebounder ever you can't respect me? LOL. Just a bunch of silliness. After reading your Terrence Jones commentary should I respect you? Especially when you are writing now about a player you've not even observed? Just silliness. I'm well aware of Udoh's past history of rebounding. Well aware of it. I've not made any outrageous claims about his rebounding. You have. You may be right. I don't know. I know he's improved his rebounding over the last couple years. He's a better rebounder now than he was when was in the NBA before. That doesn't mean he's a great rebounder. But the key thing is if you watched him play you'd understand better why I believe he'll never put up great rebounding numbers. Because his defensive game is not to sag on the pick and roll and hang out at the rim. Udoh switches and destroys the pick and roll from developing. It turns into a lot of iso play with guards foolishly attempting to beat him and he defends them outside and destroys their efficiency. That puts Udoh out of ideal rebounding position for probably half his defensive possessions. So because I have watched him play and I've seen his defensive effectiveness, I understand to a certain degree why his rebounding numbers don't jump off the page and likely never will. But I have watched enough of him to know he's a better rebounder today than he was when he was in the NBA before. And his style of play, his defensive effectiveness in the pick and roll is a key skill in today's NBA. I suspect Udoh will finally get what amounts to a jackpot contract for him this off-season from an NBA team. My biased opinion on players is based on watching them play the game. Your biased opinion on players is by looking at numbers. There's been enough commentary between us concerning this matter and in the draft thread that we'll be able to see in a few years whose better at evaluating players. And you can easily go through my post history in the draft thread and see my post commentary on unproven talent entering the NBA. I dare you to do that. Go through my posts from 3,4,5,6,7,8 years ago and read what I wrote about different players and then not respect my opinions. I dare you. Here's my final comments on Udoh and Dedmon here. 1. Udoh is the better overall defensive player. Just because Dedmon may show better rebounding percentages next season doesn't mean he's the better player. Udoh's pick and roll defense is more important in today's game than the rebounding disparity between him and Dedmon. 2. Dedmon is good value at $5 million. (I'll be surprised if he doesn't get a bigger deal.) 3. If Udoh stays healthy and comes back to the NBA he'll be one of the best pick-and-roll defensive bigs in the Association. 4. I suspect Udoh will return to the NBA this summer and I'll be surprised if he doesn't bank $30-40 million on his next contract. 5. I will be posting elsewhere in the near future about the possibilities of us signing Udoh and him being in our primary rotation next season. 6. I really don't care whether you respect me or not. 7. Udoh is a much better player than Terrence. And I believe I even suggested trading Terrence for him in days gone by. LOL
Thats what you said. If Mason were better then IT, today, then he would be starting his rookie year, putting up 20 and 5 easily, because IT is damn near a superstar today. If Mason was better then IT today, he would be killing it in practice, he'd be one of the leagues most talented scorers. He wouldn't "grind away in Europe or Dleague" I like Mason, I think he could be a solid player. That being said, you are ridiculous on many levels and statements like this are clear examples. Just like Cody Zeller being a superstar, just like Hezonja being a superstar, and many others guys who aren't playing nearly as well as you have played them up to be your self. I don't need to watch Udoh to see he was the worst defensive rebounding center in the NBA for 4 seasons, it's a fact. Just like people don't need to watch Anderson to see he's also a horrible defensive rebounder, or to see Drummond is the best defensive rebounder. It's what rebounding %'s are for. How many PG's is Mason better then? Lowry? Conley? Lillard? Wall? Let me guess, you'd also easily take Udoh over Capela as our starting center for the 2017-18 season correct?
Didn't say that. I said, in this case, rebounding numbers from two years ago do not accurately represent how good or bad of a player Udoh is.
@basketballholic Wait, so Frank Mason not matching IT's numbers doesn't prove he's NOT better than IT. But you saying it out your ass validates it? Okay sounds right. If he's better than him TODAY(like you said), he will be putting up 29 and 6 on day 1. BUT I'll give you the edge and propose this bet to you. If Frank Mason doesn't at least match IT's rookie stats(11.5 pts/4.1 asts/2.6 rbs) you make ONE last post admitting you were dead wrong and don't know anything about evaluating players, donate $50 to Clutchfans, and then delete your account(and don't make another one). Since I'm setting the bar extremely low, you know because Mason is a sure fire superstar already, if I lose I'll only make the post and donate the $50. Deal?
Ignored. This is about winning a championship. It's fine if you don't believe Mason is better than Thomas. I don't care whether you believe that or not. I am posting about winning championships and building a championship team. The focus is on Mason for the moment because the draft is the first big event leading into next season. And Mason is simply one attainable piece that fits, gives us an increase in skills in our rotation and makes somebody in our current rotation expendable. And this thread is about Dedmon anyways. And Dedmon could help us......at the right price.....And if nothing better materializes. So he should be under consideration to help us with our interior defense and rebounding. But only address we have exhausted other pursuits.
I probably would. If I were MDA and I had Capela, Onuaku, Udoh, and Nene I'd go to camp open-minded about who should start in the middle. Then I'd be in close contact with Bzdelik and get a lot of commentary from him on who is the best defensive fit. Because defense is the overriding consideration from the center position for how we are built. If I were Morey though......That's where the key decisions need to be made. We should only carry three bigs, that is to say three 5 men on the roster. If I were Morey and I could get a player like Udoh under contract I'd be looking to make a major trade with Capela as a major piece of the trade bait. I'd even trade him for Jordan Bell and I'd be convinced I won the trade. As to your question how many point guards is Mason better than, I'll discuss Mason in threads about Mason. Let's keep this one a uncluttered as possible and stay on topic about Dedmon. I'm sorry I discussed Mason at all here. Got baited into that and I should have cut that off instead of trying to explain my position. My fault. But.....You did bring up Drummond. And Drummond is a big and is a good example of the contrast between defense and rebounding for a big. He is a dominant rebounder. But he's one of the worst defensive bigs in the Association. He is so bad defensively that his rebounding is meaningless in the larger score of WINNING GAMES AND WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP. (By the way, do a search for my commentary on Drummond. Put Drummond in the search box and my name in the poster box and pull it up. What you will find is I said before he was drafted that he was fools gold. And I've never waivered on that. Even when he was throwing up 20/20 games. Drummond is garbage and SVG wants rid of him.) So rebounding numbers don't define defense. Nor do they define who is the better defensive player. There is no number you can read that defines defense. There are some analytic indicators that could give us some sort of starting point. And sometimes those analytics can help us quickly rule out bad or average to below average defenders. But the only way to really evaluate defensive effectiveness on your interior bigs is to watch them play. I've watched Dedmon. He's a better paint/rim than Capela. In fact, I was calling for us to trade Terrence for him and a second rounder right after the 14-15 season. Here's that post. Random Houston Rockets Trade Ideas - 2015-16 This would have been the time frame when you were high on Terrence and pumping him. I knew then that Dedmon was the better player when he was anchored to Orlando's bench. Because I watched him play. You need to watch Udoh play. No it's not the NBA. But neither is college the NBA. And you're posting like a mad man in the draft thread based on watching guys compete at the college level and run around a gym jumping up and touching popsicle sticks. You need to expose yourself to euroleague players. It's a challenge and a hassle. Websites suck. But it's necessary because the Euroleague and other pro basketball leagues is where you can spot NBA talent that could be acquired cheap.
It is early but Ekpe Udoh is destroying opponents with his pick-and-roll defense so far. He's looking like a total bargain.
