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[Dever Post] Camby's stats can't match Yao's votes

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Yaowaming, Dec 16, 2005.

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  1. Visagial

    Visagial Member

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    Yao is being double teamed and still scores more than Camby at a very similar shooting percentage. I have no idea what you mean by Camby "avoiding" the double team. That's purely a function of the other team's choice. An opposing team's choice not to double Camby does not make him a better player. I would think that a player who scores more than another player when that player is the focus of the opposing team's defense at a similar shooting percentage is a better offensive player.

    You admit that Yao has a great plus minus. Yao being double teamed opens the offense for the other players, and that impact is not reflected in his scoring, which, again, is actually higher than Camby's.

     
    #61 Visagial, Dec 17, 2005
  2. freemaniam

    freemaniam 我是自由人

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    Who's better? Let's wait until Dec 23 and we'll see. The best way to shut Camby's mouth up. :)
     
    #62 freemaniam, Dec 17, 2005
  3. langal

    langal Member

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    2 completely different types of players.

    For those who think Camby is better - would you be okay with a Yao-Camby trade straight up?
     
    #63 langal, Dec 17, 2005
  4. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    camby over Yao?

    Ha. No GM would ever...
     
    #64 Cohen, Dec 17, 2005
  5. poseyistheman

    poseyistheman Member

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    All of Yao's votes don't come from China. Infact I think I heard somewhere that the nba doesn't allow the votes from china because they are such a huge number that it would skew the actual american votes. Has anyone else heard that to? Either way Yao Ming is having a better year than Camby and Tmac is light years better than Marshmello. Go Rockets!!!
     
    #65 poseyistheman, Dec 17, 2005
  6. Yaowaming

    Yaowaming Contributing Member

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    http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-camby1218.artdec18,0,1859065.story?&track=rss

    Camby Land Extends Borders
    Expands Game With Mid-Range Jumper
    December 18, 2005
    By TOM YANTZ, Courant Staff Writer AST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. - While watching players chase their NBA dreams, Denver Nuggets coach George Karl spoke with Marcus Camby during the Las Vegas summer league.

    In the desert oasis of jackpot payoffs, Karl was looking for a winner.



    "I wanted Marcus to become a better player both mentally and physically," Karl said. "Last year I thought we had good players, good professionals, but not great leadership. I talked 15 to 20 minutes to him about leadership."

    Karl says he has a winner and a leader in Camby, the 6-foot-11 pride of Hartford Public High.

    "He has been fantastic," Karl said.

    Camby averages a career-high 16.8 points, 13.3 rebounds and 3.2 blocks. Through Friday, he led the NBA in rebounds, was third in blocks and tied for fourth in double-doubles (16).

    "I'm not a big stat guy," Camby said Friday before the Nuggets lost to the Nets at Continental Airlines Arena. "I only care how well we play, and that Coach told me this summer he wanted me to be a leader. I listened."

    Teammate Andre Miller said Camby isn't a loud, vocal figure in the locker room.

    "He leads us on the court, and if guys have something they want to talk to him about they can go to him," Miller said.

    Camby, in his 10th NBA season, smiled in the arena, where as a UMass junior he had been the second player selected in the 1996 NBA draft. Though he missed his second consecutive game Friday night because of a sprained right little finger sustained Wednesday in practice, he reflected on his role.

    "I'm an elder statesman. I'm the captain of the ship [in Denver]," said Camby, 31. "A lot of my teammates look up to me for advice. I know a few tricks on the court and know how to conduct myself on and off the court. When I'm playing, they know I've always got their backs if their guy beats them."

    His exceptional leaping ability, weak-side defensive help and instincts have been constants since high school.

    But the blossoming of his entire game this season has been prominent. The absence of forward Nene, who tore his right ACL in the season opener, and left knee tendinitis that has hindered forward Kenyon Martin, often has left Camby alone inside. Nevertheless, he has produced for the Nuggets (12-12), who are 11/2 games behind Minnesota in the Northwest Division.

    Except for Camby's little finger (he might play today in Atlanta), he has enjoyed a relatively healthy season. This contrasts to an assortment of injuries that caused him to miss an average of 24 games a season in his first nine years, including 53 games each in 2001-02 and 2002-03.

    The only other time in his career he averaged more than 12.1 points was when he averaged 14.8 as a rookie for Toronto in 1996-97.

    Camby was traded to the Knicks in 1998 in the deal that sent Charles Oakley to Toronto.

    "In New York I was a young guy," Camby said. "There were so many veterans like Patrick Ewing, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston, Larry Johnson. I was just playing a back role. Here I'm in the right situation."

    The Knicks, frustrated by his injury problems, dealt him to Denver in 2002 along with Mark Jackson and the draft rights to Nene for Antonio McDyess, Frank Williams and a 2003 second-round draft pick that turned out to be Maciej Lampe.

    The Nuggets, featuring Camby, Carmelo Anthony and Miller, thrive when they push the ball. Karl emphasized his team's athleticism after he was named coach in January, and the Nuggets won 32 of their final 40 games to earn the seventh seed in the Western Conference playoffs.

    Rick Mahorn, a big-time rebounder and defender for 18 NBA seasons in the 1980s and '90s, first saw Camby's abilities at the Kelvin Anderson Park courts in Hartford.



    "It was like 15 years ago, and I'd come back for the summers," said Mahorn, a graduate of Weaver High. "I'd play pick-up games. He had big-time potential then."

    Mahorn, the Pistons' radio analyst and an assistant coach with the WNBA's Detroit Shock, said Camby benefits from not playing in a regimented half-court offense.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    "Denver is perfect for Marcus, and also the defenses have to be very aware or double-team Anthony," he said. "So that opens up space, too."

    After his confab with Karl this summer, Camby worked to improve his jump shot.

    "He has become a very effective, efficient and surprisingly good shooter from the high post, which is good for Melo," Karl said.

    Karl put his right hand to his forehead.

    "Marcus has given me a little bit of a positive headache," he said. "His offense has blossomed to the point where we have to figure it out a little bit. Now we expect him to be in the 15- to 20-point area on most nights. There was a time when he was a 10 to 15 guy. That's a positive problem."

    Camby has played himself into consideration for the 2008 U.S. Olympic team. Managing director Jerry Colangelo intends to contact as many as 35 players before formal invitations.

    "I know it's a three-year commitment, so I'd have to talk to my family about that," Camby said. "But it would be an unbelievable honor if I was selected."

    So too would be his first All-Star Game. He ranks second in voting among Western Conference centers (250,312), behind Houston's Yao Ming (729,178), for the Feb. 19th game in Houston.

    None of this surprises Karl.

    "Marcus has been our most valuable player," he said.
     
    #66 Yaowaming, Dec 18, 2005
  7. micah1j

    micah1j Member

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    #67 micah1j, Dec 29, 2005
  8. Pass 1st shoot 2nd

    Pass 1st shoot 2nd Member

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    Camby is having a BETTER year that Yao, even though Yao is considered to be the better player. The All-Star game is an event where fans get to pick who they want to see play each year. The Chinese are making sure that Yao is the top vote getter. The coaches will select Camby, at least I hope so. Camby is tearing it up this year and deserves to be an All-Star.
     
    #68 Pass 1st shoot 2nd, Dec 29, 2005
  9. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    What a shock, you show up when the team is struggling :rolleyes: and you make ignorant statements like Yao is outvoting Camby only because of the Chinese. In case you haven't noticed, everyone in America knows who Yao is, I doubt you can say the same for Camby. Anyway, don't you have a hole to crawl back to?
     
    #69 hotballa, Dec 29, 2005
  10. vizier

    vizier Member

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    #70 vizier, Dec 29, 2005
  11. GRENDEL

    GRENDEL Member

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    No kidding, you would have thought he could have at least read the thread and see what people were complaining about what Camby said in the first place.
     
    #71 GRENDEL, Dec 29, 2005
  12. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    P1st, S2nd, long time no see. I was beginning to wonder who the heck was that on my ignore list.

    Hotballa, p1st,S2nd definitely out for a long time I almost forgot why I put him on my ignore list.
     
    #72 rvpals, Dec 29, 2005
  13. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    His real name is Post 1st, Read 2nd
     
    #73 hotballa, Dec 29, 2005
  14. Pass 1st shoot 2nd

    Pass 1st shoot 2nd Member

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    Hotbreath and RVPark,

    Look, Yao is a good player. Camby, in my estimation, is outperforming Yao. The fan frenzy in China IS ABSOLUTELY, UNQUESTIONABLY responsible for Yao leading the NBA in votes. There's nothing racist about that.

    As for waiting to post until the Rockets are doing bad, you are wrong. Take a look elsewhere and see. I visit the site nearly every day and keep up on things, and even make fun of Mavs fans up here in Dallas where I live now. Mind both of you that I've been posting here since 1999. Where have the two of you been, besides inflating your post count?

    Grendal,

    I read the thread.

    -P1st, S2nd
     
    #74 Pass 1st shoot 2nd, Dec 29, 2005
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2005
  15. micah1j

    micah1j Member

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    You are wrong. Its the CRAZY, RABBID fans in HOUSTON who STUFF the BALLOT that pushes Yao over the top! It was documents that the online votes are very small in comparison to those collected by the ROCKETS at the games.
     
    #75 micah1j, Dec 29, 2005
  16. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    Yes we know, we've all agreed hes having the better year stats wise.

    The All star vote has always been about popularity. When has Camby ever been popular? And why is it so hard to accept that fans from the US will vote in Yao when they voted in a gimpy Grant Hill, Vince Carter, and Zo Mourning to start when they were injured and hadnt played at all? Shaq consistently blamed China for Yao outpolling him, but who was the guy who won the paper balloting, the votes that were done in the arenas? It was Yao. More people know him, like him, and want to see him. Noone knows who Camby is. You unwillingness to accept that Yao is a popular guy in America is confounding to me.

    BTW, I never ever mentioned race, nor did I make any statements even suggesting that. You're making me rethink that stance.


    There was a stretch last year when the Rox were struggling that you were beating us into the ground with your negativity, most of it focused on Yao. I am not the only one who noticed this. My post count comes from posting in good times and bad times, and what can I say, I love this board. Excuse me for being sociable.
     
    #76 hotballa, Dec 29, 2005
  17. BONIERO1576

    BONIERO1576 Member

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    I guess somebody has already said this but who cares? Are either of them even available for the All-star game, do either teams have a winning record? To tell the truth of course, I want Yao to enjoy representing H-town on his homecourt, but given a choice I would rest him for the weekend and let Duncan start center for the West.

    As for Camby if it wasn't for those two games early in the season where he went bonkers for 30 and 20 his averages would be nowhere near Yao's who consistently posts his averages night in and night out.

    The last word on this is last season: Grant Hill, kudos to the guy for coming back but is he a better forward than Paul Pierce, Ron Artest, even Al Harrington, no but since the fan voting is a popularity contest there are going to be snubs.
     
    #77 BONIERO1576, Dec 29, 2005
  18. langal

    langal Member

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    This has been documented many times. If the Chinese were not allowed to vote, Yao still would have started over Shaq and definitely over Camby.

    Yao has 730k votes, Camby has 250k. Are you telling me that less than 250k Americans voted for Yao?

    Are Americans only suppoed to vote for white guys or black guys?

    I would think that real Rocket fans would be pleased that they have 2 starters when hosting the game.
     
    #78 langal, Dec 29, 2005
  19. micah1j

    micah1j Member

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    Yao now has 1,319,868 votes

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...e8vLYF?slug=ap-all-starvote&prov=ap&type=lgns

    Yao paced all players with 1,319,868 votes for the game in Houston on Feb. 19. Houston teammate Tracy McGrady topped the West forwards with 1,066,013 votes. He was followed at forward by Minnesota's Kevin Garnett (793,078). The leading guards were the Lakers' Kobe Bryant (1,213,387) and the Suns' Steve Nash (981,623).

    O'Neal, the Miami Heat center, was first in the East with 1,188,830 votes. James of Cleveland (1,150,920) and Jermaine O'Neal of Indiana (689,526) drew the most votes at forward in the conference. The front-running guards were Philadelphia's Allen Iverson (1,144,250) and Miami's Dwyane Wade (827,913).
     
    #79 micah1j, Dec 29, 2005
  20. Pass 1st shoot 2nd

    Pass 1st shoot 2nd Member

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    You guys are missing my point. Yao is not the most popular player in the U.S. Yao gets more votes than Shaq, Lebron, Kobe, A.I., T-Mac - everybody, because of the Chinese votes.

    I have neither stated nor implied that Yao would back-up Camby at the Allstar game if it weren't for the Chinese votes. That's because Yao is the most popular center in the Western Conference.

    Over and outta this thread.
     
    #80 Pass 1st shoot 2nd, Dec 29, 2005
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