dod, i just pointed out the bible thin in response to everyone saying its crazy muslim fanaticism. im really interested in your logic explaining why 2 stone statues is as important or more important than thousands of human lives. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/omar369
i must be missing something, but they are using dynamite to my knowledge. i think what you are referring to is the Hajj, where the pilgrims throw small stones at pillars representing satan and about 30 ppl accidently died during that. (at first i thougt you were referring to palestinians throwing rocks at israelis.. hence the anti tank missile response) ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/omar369
Your true feelings are now coming out. Agitate anything enough and something will rise. This isn't just "America". Other Muslim leaders have denounced the idiots-that-attack-religious-statues. I have nothing against Muslims, but I definitely have something against people that always turn an issue into A vs. B blindly. And this is what you're doing... America vs. Muslims. Wonderful. How do you not bump into walls with your blinders on? ------------------ "I was arrested for sexual assault involving an elderly man and I was out in 35 minutes." -- Achebe - programmer by day, geriatric ass grabber by night. As(s?) a side note, he did state he was cleared of charges.
I'm more interested in your logic as to why because I care about one you somehow infer I don't care about the other? Care to explain that? You can't. So, once again... simply because I condemn one does not mean I condone the other. Got it? ------------------ "I was arrested for sexual assault involving an elderly man and I was out in 35 minutes." -- Achebe - programmer by day, geriatric ass grabber by night. As(s?) a side note, he did state he was cleared of charges.
ooohhhh... that's my bad. I apologize for the confusion on both accounts. Now I really should leave. Confusing the Hajj w/ this... whoa my wife would kill me. I'll try to back up and just point out that again I believe, that regardless of what's happening in Israel, that we could all probably agree that the Taliban is wrong (hopefully). IMO, religious freedom counts for every faith... not just the one that's in charge of the government at any given moment. The Taliban might be in charge now... but might isn't right. China's stronger than Tibet... but they shouldn't have exiled the Dhali Lhama. India might be stronger than Pakistan... is that the sole factor in determining Kashmir sovereignty? I hope not. ------------------ git it tag, git it!
Achebe, Dr. of Dunk: There's no chance I'll get my point across, simply because this is such an emotional topic. It's their country. It happens to be run by religion. The religion of Islam calls for destruction of all idols. If the Taliban hold these religious beliefs/opinions, why are they "morons"? Does that make all Christians "morons" for believing in Christ as Lord and Savior? Does that make orthodox Jews "morons" for eating Kosher? This argument will probably get nowhere, but you understand my stance. ------------------ It is no rumor that Matthew Bullard is 30th on the NBA's <i><b>all-time</i></b> 3 point accuracy list.
I think that everyone is missing something central to the Buddhist religion. Of course, what they are doing is terrible, but the central belief of Buddhism is that life is suffering because we are attached to things, people and the outcome of events. Buddhists strive for detachment as a way to reach enlightenment. The destruction of the statues may be sad and unfortunate, but many Buddhists understand that this is simply another moment on the path to enlightenment. If you notice, there has been very little reaction, generally speaking, from the Buddhist community outside of "official" responses from Japan and other Asian nations. I'm sure it saddens them, but attachment to these statues would be worse. Instead of allowing this thread to disintegrate into something akin to a family feud (not the game show!), maybe we should consider the feelings of those whose statues are being demolished. ------------------ fArt don't pay the rent.
I totally understand thacabbage.... this is incredibly emotional. To me, this issue strikes at the heart of religious freedoms. If there's one thing that I respect about that bastid Orrin Hatch it would be for his attempts to push for better protection of religious freedoms (perhaps I need to check into this for more than just the sparkler headline... hopefully he's doing this for all faiths). Perhaps it gets a bigger headline because some of the biggeys were Buddhist sites, perhaps it gets bigger headlines merely b/c statues are sculpture... and we love our sculpture. I do hope that most of us see it, though, as being as evil as China's oppression of Tibet. I don't think that this is a US/Arab Nation issue though, until we make it one. ------------------ git it tag, git it!
great point Jeff... I hadn't considered the Buddhist response, I was stuck in my own absolutes. Aren't there other faiths whose artifacts are being destroyed though? Also, I might also point out that (IMO, of course) the world looses something... a piece of itself in regards to religious toleration, when any statue is destroyed, regardless of the impact on those seemingly most affected. Heck, we loose a piece of our collective history, regardless of faith when one of these artifacts is destroyed. For example, when Egyptian relics are stolen or destroyed, aren't we all devastated? Haven't we all lost a little bit of something? Haven't Afghanistanis lost something when the new strip mall in Flagstaff blazes over Dine pottery? ------------------ git it tag, git it!
I'm not saying we haven't lost something. What I'm saying is, what really does it matter? Believe me, I read about this last week and it really upset me. And, I am certainly one who advocates historic preservation. However, life does go on. Really, they didn't make friends around the world by doing what they did. Most people, including many Islamic countries, denounced the destruction. So, in essence, they helped to raise the awareness of both the preservation of historical artifacts and Buddhism. The path of non-violence and passive resistance may take longer and be filled with more disturbing images, but it is always more effective than forcing people to do or not do what you want them to. It could be argued that the forced ending to their destruction of these statues would create more problems than just allowing them to do it. By talking about it, we are creating awareness of the problem and by doing it, they are creating unpopularity for themselves and their own religious cause. Sounds like they won the battle but lost the war. ------------------ fArt don't pay the rent.
I think someone needs to use dynamite to blow up those idiots in Afghanistan. I am a Muslim also, and I think what they are doing it completely idiotic. I dont know where they get all these translations of the Quran. All these Middle Easter nations that fight in the name of Islam are complete hypocrites. "Islam" stands for PEACE for crying out loud! Destroying ancient artifacts is about the dumbest thing I can think of doing. But what America is doing with Iraq is probably worse. Thousands of kids and people are dying due to the American sanctions. Why the hell does the U.S. have to stick its nose everywhere? We are wasting our own resources and money. And lets not even get started with American support for Israel ------------------
If ya'll want to talk about the Iraq sanctions, you should start a new topic. It has nothing to do with the destruction of archeological ruins.
well the point being made is that thousands of innocent kids are dying due to sanctions on humanitarian aid which we can lift at anytime. but instead, the world is focusing on a couple of statues. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/omar369
There are alot of things wrong in the world jamma34. We can pay attention to all of it. This thread was talking about the Destruction of Statues... if people want to try to divert the matter to something else, so be it... but the fact remains that the Taleban is filled of a bunch of intolerant bastards. I personally find it funny that most of the Muslim world stands in opposition to their acts, yet US Muslims do not. By the way it is done. ------------------ "We've never been very comfortable with praising ourselves, but we're so proud of our new album, The Great Eastern, that we've got no problem telling people it's an absolutely fantastic record." EMMA POLLOCK of the delgados.
I have to ask this: Why do you keep implying that we (America) are killing all those kids in Iraq? The sanctions are U.N. imposed. You wanna blame a country then blame all that are involved. Also, seems to me that Saddam could help his children. Iraq still has plenty of money. They are still selling oil. Maybe if he'd stop blowing all of his money on trying to better shoot down our planes then maybe more of his kids will live. If these countries would stop killing innocent people in the name of their god(s) then we wouldn't be sticking our noses in they're business to begin with. I do not agree with ANY religion that OK's the killing of others because of their beliefs. ------------------
Why is the support of Israel by the US such a bad thing? It seems to me that we should help our allies. Especially those surrounded by hostile nations. It was not too long ago that Israel was attacked by a coallition of about 6 Arab nations. Why should that be considered okay, but the actions of the Israeli government denounced. It is not like Israel is trying to get more of the middle east, they just want to hold on to what they have got. Sadly, the Israeli Jews have nowhere else to go, unlike the Palastinians, who could move to any of the bordering nations to be with people of a similar ethnic and/or religious background. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com [This message has been edited by Hydra (edited March 13, 2001).]
This is what happens when your government collects up your guns. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
WEll boys, its too late now... ------------------ Whatever you want to do, you have to do something else first.
Umm...yeah. Why dont we just narrow down all the US Muslims into one single category. Yeah I sure as hell dont care if ancient artifacts are destroyed. ------------------
Where the hell are you people getting all this crap? Where the hell are the Muslims suppose to move? The economy in Middle Eastern Nations and other nations (Pakistan) in the surrounding areas cannot afford to let more people into their nations. They barely have enough jobs to supply their own people. They dont want the burden of Palestinians in their nations. The only reason US supports Israel is because of all the lobbying that goes in the US. American Jews are a powerful bunch of people. Some of the biggest corporations in the US are owned by Jews. ------------------
