[Denver Post] Rockets Still interested in Wells...

The Heat still have their entire MLE?! That's not good.

 

I agree that it is not a smart idea for the Heat to sign Bonzi, but I am sure the Heat are interested and there is a way for them to sign Bonzi because they did bring him in to visit...

 

good post. I agree with most all of it except this part. Stevie never ran. He didn't want to. He wanted to skip-hop up the court and go to the wing for some one on one. Now if Stevie had a point guard with him, that would have been different. But Stevie never ran. Not with Rudy; Not with Gundy; and not at Orlando. Stevie not running has nothing to do with Van Gundy. It has to do with Stevie was no PG.

 

No question there is a way, it actually appears there's two. Pay twice the MLE (because of the lux tax) or work out a SnT with the Kings (which btw they've said over and over again they're not willing to do with any team at this point because of the lux tax as well).

Our TE + pick should trump anything out there at this point EXCEPT an outright signing by Charlotte IMO. And for whatever reason, I just can't see Bonzi fitting the building direction that team is going... Maybe they want an injection of SOME experience finally, I don't know... But why not save all the cap space you can for a run at the 2007 FA class if you're going to make a move?!?

 

Can you guys stop talking about JVG and blah blah blah....this thread is about Bonzi ....not about JVG and him not playin rookies, blah , blah, blah

 

Yea but I still think they wont take him. Wade plays the 2-guard spot so Wells would be a bench player. he wants money but more importantly, he wants minutes to boost his stats. Miami can't give him that.

 

I still disagree. If you go back to Maryland, Steve was a running guard. He may not have been/be a point guard but he likes to run. The deal under Rudy was we had no one else on the team that could do anything. He was having to rebound the ball and bring it the entire 94 feet. To really run, you've got to be able to depend on the big men to get the boards and throw the outlet. Stevie had that in college along with some athletic running mates. He didn't have that under Rudy. Him and Cat were going to the glass just to give us a fair shot at the rebounding war. Hakeem was on his last legs and was a shadow of his former self. We had nobody on those teams. Stevie's first year was the Barkley injury. Steve was one of the top rebounders on the whole team. In fact, I haven't checked the stats, but I would guess that Steve was either the top rebounder or one of the top 2 rebounders every year he was on our team, even under Van Gundy. You can't effectively expect a guy that goes to the glass like that to come busting it out and running past 6 or 7 guys to ignite the break. It just doesn't work that way. He didn't run more because he was trying to get dadamball. About the best you can expect is the skip hop up the floor after he rebounds the ball himself and then to do what he does best, which was to break down the defender and either get to the rim or force the help and throw it back to the wide open teammate.

I'm not saying he is the classic point. But if you saw that Maryland team, you would know that ideally, Stevie wants to get out and run and use his athleticism to get to the rim quickly and gain the advantage over a mismatched defender in transition.

 

Steve will never be a fastbreaking PG. At Maryland, he played with PGs on the court with him.

I think you are just using the "Steve wanted to run" argument to overly bash JVG. It's unnecessary. You make a strong argument about the toll his defense takes on the players. imo, your argument loses credibility when you try to say Steve Francis was a fastbreaking PG lost in a JVG offense. I mean, Moochie Norris was not a great PG, and he certainly pounded the ball in the halfcourt set, but he ran more that SF, especially when we played the 3-guard lineup. Also, the JVG team 2 yrs ago ran more than any Francis team has ever run. That's a fact.

also, the "you need a good outlet to run a fastbreak" argument is another overstatement. First off, the whole classic fastbreak starting with an outlet focuses on the PG taking the outlet down the middle, allowing the Cat's of the world to run the wing. Stevie didn't like the middle. He wanted to run Cat's wing position on "fastbreaks." So the outlet pass limiting Stevie's running ability is weak. The outlet pass was not the problem when Rudy was coaching him. Steve just had no clue how to run a fastbreak as a PG.

Secondly, Jason Kidd and Magic Johnson were two of the best rebounding PGs in NBA history. That never stopped them from taking that rebounding and running with it. The difference is, fastbreaking PGs run no matter what. They might not get a classic fastbreak, but they are running. Steve rarely took a rebound and ran. Moochie would on the rare times he got the rebound.

 

Denver can offer more than us unless Sac agrees to a S&T with us.

Miami, Denver, us and Charlotte--we all are in the picture, but there are things that both work for and against Bonzi going to each place. Mia and Charlotte have the best potential offers, but one is a mature team off an NBA title, doesn't have a starting spot for him, and may not want to mess with good chemistry. The other is a young team who may not want a vet player rental who could also negatively impact chemistry, be a poor role model for their younger player, and take away shots from younger developing players. Nonetheless Wells is a talented player those teams can probably get in a short term contract, they may side the upside (Mia may say he cements them as the favs to repeat and they just barely had enough firepower to make it through last year, Char could say get gets them 5 more wins and they have to spend anyway) is worth the risk. Denver and Houston have much less to lose, they are largely veteran underachiving teams who have a big need for another formidable swingmen and who haven't had great chemistry to lose in the first place. Both can also offer a starting SG spot, Denver has more money to offer strait out and the Rockets have more to offer (TE, pick, player) IF Sac coorperates and the Rockets feel the price is fair. So in short their a lot of factors in play here and no situation is ideal for Bonzi.

After Mike James fiasco (when I was 95% sure he would go to us or Dallas), I am not making predictions, but we certainly have a reasonable shot now when 3 months ago I would say we had next to no shot to land the FA Wells.

 

I agree, Stevie did want to be on the wing. And I never said he was a classic point. He's not and never has been, even when he was at Maryland. What I said was he liked to run. That's why him and Cat were all over wanting to trade the Yao pick for Lamar Odom. They knew Odom would be the guy that would allow them both to get out on the wings because Odom would rebound and bring it up the middle for them to finish.

And actually the classic fb starts with good solid rebounding from centers and power forwards that can block out and get the board, and either throw the outlet pass to the middle or more commonly, because the middle is usually congested, an outlet pass to the sidelines, then in turn is thrown to the middle to a player(point) sprinting into the forecourt.

And all I've got to say about Kidd and Magic is, if you put them on the Rox teams from 99-2002 in place of Steve, they ain't running a bunch of fast breaks with old, tired, broken down players with poor talent level that were on those teams. You put Steve on those Magic Laker teams and he plays the same role as Byron Scott, coming off the wings and finishing. To run the break, it takes 3 guys that can streak the floor, 2 wings and the ballhandler in the middle. We did not have that with Steve and Cat. They were wings and there was only two of them. Walt Williams couldn't run the break. And Moochie was a barely 6 foot, slow as molasses point who had just as much penchant for shooting over passing as Francis. Heck, those guys were slow in the half court game much less transition.

All that doesn't add up to Steve and Cat didn't want to run though. They did. It's just that neither of them were facilitators. They needed the third piece. Same holds true for Kidd. If he doesn't have 2 wings, he ain't running an effective break. Take either Vince or Jefferson away and watch that team slow down and go halfcourt. We just seen that last year when Jefferson was out.

And the ONLY reason that team from 2 years ago ran more was because JVG loosened up 20 or so games into that season after him and McGrady had their one on one. Van Gundy made an adjustment at that point, not before, not with Francis and Mobley. Van Gundy finally yielded some control to a superstar player whom he trusted wanted to win. Van Gundy never trusted Steve and Cat that way but rather he kept trying to torque their games. Remember, it was not working with JVG and McGrady even, until they came to a meeting of the minds and JVG accepted McGrady's input. From then on, when healthy they have lit it up.

JVG has never been an uptempo coach until recently and I'm sorry but he's still not an uptempo coach. He has always played a slow it down grind it out style. He may want quick ball movement and players running around all over the place, and racing over halfcourt to apply pressure to the opponent, but ideally, in his mind Van Gundy wants an endurance contest with a team of tough, gutty ballers that will just pound the other team into submission with ball movement, post up, spread the floor basketball that forces the opponent to scramble even more than his guys do on the other end and eliminates the opponent's fb opportunities thereby forcing them into long half court sets and frustating them with the lack of pace. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. I don't think there is. I think it is a winning style with the right pieces. And I think if he gets his pieces that will play that tough half court defense,and are an efficient offensive bunch, that we will get our championships by running a lot of half court sets and occasionally running the break as we get man advantage opportunities. But a Van Gundy team will never be the Showtime Lakers. They will be more along the lines of those Celtic teams that played in the Finals against those Laker teams. A classic half court basketball team with the ability to take advantage of the break when it is there off backcourt steals or long rebounds.

With that in mind, Bonzi fits in. He can definitely D up when motivated. And he's strong. I remember staunching for him last year before the trade to Sac. We knew he would be moving as an expiring contract. But everybody kept harping on what a poor attitude he was and what a poor shooter he was...............just like when Rasheed Wallace was on the market...........just like everybody does now about...........Darius Miles.

Sorry, had to throw that in.

 

Agree, but 3 things about Denver and Bonzi:

1. Denver has shown the most interest since the start of FA, handsdown.

2. Denver (Melo, Nene, and K-Mart) is probabaly just as bad off with the luxury tax as Sac and MIA are.

3. There have been some recent articles about Sac being unwilling to do a SnT with another team this offseason, namely with Denver, due to the luxury tax. What other assets do they have? TEs? MLE? LLE? (And if so, refer to point #2)

 

Beaver's Mom: Perhaps I can help. I speak Knucklehead.


(oh how I wish I had a pic from that flick!) nudge nudge

 

The only thing I don't agree with is the "maybe miami and charlotte do not want to pay for him or dont want him to ruin chemistry, etc." The reason that I disagree is because the all the aforementioned teams have shown interest in him. Miami knows they'll have to pay dollar for dollar, Charlotte knows of his past history and the impact he'll have on the young players. Yet, they are still scheduling meetings with the guy, meaning that none of that stuff matters. I dont think we should bank on other teams bowing out. I think everyone is going to offer what they can to land him if theyre setting up meetings.

 

I think you may have missed it so please allow me to make subtle connection for you from VG & PG's to Wells.

Frequently in this thread, Wells' strengths and weaknesses were the focus...good post up, good rebounding, not great range to surround Yao. To offset the lack of range in the half court, you run...Wells can do that. Alston can't. IOW, it would not be VG holding Wells back but the tempo of the PG.

Another less obvious connection is this. What is Wells worth? If you're going to give up a 1st round pick, then you'd better maximize his talents. That maximization plays into how VG uses him and his chemistry with the others on the court.

Now, if you want to limit the focus we are going to relegate ourselves to inane posts like "I sure wish he'd sign" or "I'm getting antsy" or "Anybody got any news?"...IMHO, how VG uses him and how he fits on the team are far more interesting.

 

Barry wasn't even on the team at that time. He wasn't here until at the trade deadline of 04-05 season. JVG has a long history going all the way back to NY of being strict on those Knick teams. He was constantly wanting them to get the ball in to Ewing, even though it was obvious that Ewing was stove up and finished. The year that Ewing got hurt and they couldn't dump it in to them is when they really took off. Barry came along after JVG made adjustments to the offense

right. but the only adjustments, i saw, that where that tmac was taking shots and not deferring as much. I dont think the offensive scheme changed. Yes, try to get the ball to yao, but take your shot if you cant. I think tmac was trying to force it inside too much and it was affecting his offense.

i think JVG has plays that need to be run in a particular manner, but i also think that he gives the payers the freedom to create on their own.

I've seen him go irrate when a defensive assignment is missed. I've never seen him get that upset as often for someone taking a forced shot.

 

They're probably all just as bored as we are this offseason and are looking for something to do!

When does training camp start again, seriously?

 

GATER: I would not give up the 1st round pick for Wells. Just because we know management will trade away the pick for $.10 on the dollar or VG simply won't play the rookie, still doesn't justify the crime.

 

It seems like if Bonzi would have to come here if what all these teams are saying is true. Assuming everybody sticks to what they're saying (which isn't all that likely, which I realize) then it looks like this...

- Miami has the MLE, but want to avoid the luxury tax. So that is out. Sacramento doesn't want to take back contracts either, so a S&T is also out.

- Denver is out of luck because Sacramento doesn't want to take contracts back in a S&T.

- Charlotte has been extremely stingy with their money as a franchise, and I seriously doubt that they'd go against that philosophy just to bring Wells in for a year. I don't think they'd bring him in for any longer than that, considering they want to keep money off the books for the 2007 FA class. As a playing situation, it's one of the worst for Wells because he would get zero publicity.

- With Houston, he would be in an ideal situation as far as playing time goes. He'd also be joining a team that is basically guaranteed to have a much better year than last year (the only team in the bunch that you can say that about). So if he came here, he'd automatically be associated with that improvement, which is good for his value. He'd get plenty of playing time, and the second most national tv exposure (after Miami). On the financial side of things, he'd get a solid 4.2 million through a S&T with Sacramento, which I believe they'd do because they wouldn't have to take on any salary and would get a draft pick out of it. Much better than letting him walk for nothing.

I think as long as nobody really pulls something out of left field in terms of changing up their stance on what they're willing to do to sign him, Bonzi would have to be pretty dumb not to choose Houston...but he is an ex Trailblazer, so...


By the way, somebody let me know if any of my info is incorrect. There's a lot of details/rumors to keep up with, but I think I pretty much got it right.

 

EXACTLY, man where are our insiders when you need 'em?!?