What makes him elite exactly? He's Rick Adelman but younger. Look at this mediocre playoff record. http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/karlge01c.html
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Coaching sources tell ESPN that Memphis -- still deciding whether or not to bring back Lionel Hollins -- WILL discuss job with George Karl</p>— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/342668821846425602">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Grizzlies, according to sources, have Karl at top of list alongside current Grizz assistant Dave Joerger if they opt to part ways w/Hollins</p>— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/342669041065930752">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Grizzlies, according to sources, have Karl at top of list alongside current Grizz assistant Dave Joerger if they opt to part ways w/Hollins</p>— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/342669041065930752">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>One source close to process says "trade" between Denver and Memphis is now conceivable where Karl takes over Grizz and Hollins joins Nuggets</p>— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/342669306179510272">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Sources say Grizz have NOT yet ruled out bringing Hollins back. But Karl has strong ally in MEM front office in former Nuggets exec Stu Lash</p>— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/342669591035666432">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Of course, Clips' interest in George Karl has already been established. Whether Masai Ujiri, now in Toronto, has interest remains to be seen</p>— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/342670102967238656">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Karl, Collins, Wilkens and Adelman all are considered "great" for lasting so long. They all are good coaches, but not great.
Clutchfans has a affinity for these kinds of coaches just like they did for players like Chuck Hayes.
Yeah, they're screwing the pooch on this one. Why not extend the guy? He won Coach of the Year and he's currently the active leader in wins. Who are you going to get that better than that? As much as I didn't like the firing of JVG the level of bone-headedness here is off the charts compared to that one.
So you don't think Adelman is an elite coach either? If you're going to go by playoff record you probably think Mike Brown is better.
It's obvious I don't think Adelman is elite. Is T-Mac Elite? Carl is pretty much the T-Mac of NBA coaches in the last Decade.
One question that we have to ask is, what do we mean by elite. To me elite means one of the best. TMac was certainly an elite player in the NBA for a time, but he did not have an elite career. Karl is doubtlessly a very good coach who has always had a positive impact on teams (who typically get better once he arrives and get worse once he leaves). How many coaches are better than him though? I don't want to start making lists, but several names certainly come to mind. My sense is that Karl is very good, but not elite. Meaning he is better than most coaches but not in the discussion of whether or not he is the best. Basically, a good rule of thumb for elite is, if you are not in the discussion for being the best in a particular category, then you are not elite. A good football parallel for Karl is Marty Schottenheimer. Never the best, never a champion, but always a very good coach with a positive impact on the team. And when he leaves, the team slowly declines in the following years. Here's to that happening to the Nuggets. And I got to say, elite or not, Karl with the Clippers with Griffin and Paul doing their best Rain Man and Glove impersonation, scares the bejesus out of me.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Management blamed George Karl for losing Golden State series. Believed he panicked by matching up small rather than by playing Nuggets game.</p>— Chris Tomasson (@christomasson) <a href="https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/342677223083503616">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Management wanted George Karl to play JaVale McGee more after they paid him all this money. Wanted him to start over Koufos but Karl said no</p>— Chris Tomasson (@christomasson) <a href="https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/342677422069657600">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Management believed George Karl played Andre Miller too much. Wanted to see Evan Fournier get more development during regular season.</p>— Chris Tomasson (@christomasson) <a href="https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/342677729986093057">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Management wouldn't have minded George Karl develop younger players in general more even if would have meant winning few less games than 57</p>— Chris Tomasson (@christomasson) <a href="https://twitter.com/christomasson/status/342678059457073152">June 6, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Agreed 100% HamJam. He's a good coach. Just like Adelman was a good coach. Nothing wrong with that. People think they're both elite but they aren't.
Tmac was once an elite player, yes. A better comparison would be Iverson: a lot of regular season excitement and at least some playoff success. Adelman got to the finals twice and was cheated out of a ring in the SAC/LA series. Unless you think he lost that series fair and square, it's safe to say he's around championship caliber. There was some nice talent in Portland and Sac, but let's not pretend he had multiple HOFs on the same team like Jackson or Poppovich.
It all has to do with circumstances. Look back over those years. His best teams got matched up against very talented teams, as well. What you can say about him, is that he gets the best out of his talent. Denver just isn't as talented as folks make that team out to be. Their best players are an undersized point guard, and a defensive wing.
I don't want to detract from the Karl conversation, but on Adelman (who I admittedly never liked, but that was probably just JVG devotion on my part), even if he would have won a title in one of those years where he was close (with Sac or Portland), he still would not be elite. A lot of non-elite coaches win titles. As much as I will always revere Rudy T, he was never an elite coach. Good -- sure, potentially the best in the NBA -- never. Same with Larry Brown. When the Pistons won that title Larry Brown did not magically change from good slimey journeyman coach into elite coach. Meanwhile, regardless if he wins a title ever, I think Thibodeaux is elite. Just like there are countless elite players who never won a title. Success is certainly the barometer for elite status, but championships are only one benchmark of success.
Assuming Coach Karl is healthy, yeah, this was a stupid move by Denver. Maybe it's the altitude. Karl had a regular season record with Denver of 423-257, and took them to the playoffs nine straight seasons. If that's not "elite," I must not understand the meaning of the word.
